Need advice on problems with trophies

Pro dip, if you can help get this situation resolved to the benefit of an AH member who has been having difficulty that would be great. Nothing wrong with jumping in.
But making recommendations about not lodging a complaint when someone has not apparently been treated in a professional manner in not really helpful. dsweber has been having trouble for a long time, that is not inconsequential.

You are obviously in a relationship with this business, I hope you can help facilitate a positive resolution.

Brickburn, I sure hope so... I do feel sorry for dsweber and will look into the matter as far as possible on this side.

Pro Dip

Should be commended for stepping forward in helping dsweber out...

From Pro Dip prior posts i do believe that they were located in South Africa last year and are in the process of setting up a guide and dipping business in Zimbabwe.

They are currently trying to set up a business and obtain new clientele for there business...moving to a new country and doing this is difficult...

Anything Pro-Dip and can do to help dsweber was more than he had prior to Pro Dip post.

An as indicated Pro Dip could have stayed on the side lines and watch the foray move along, But Oh no they stepped right into the fire with both feet to assist another hunter with problems...

If we have the opportunity to use Pro Dip in the future we should support them.

My 2 Cents

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Originally Posted by PRO-DIP LIMPOPO

Dear dsweber

I suppose I should have stayed out of this, but all I tried to say was that whatever happened before my time, I will try to make sure not to let it happen again. I see great potential in this Outfit, and it would be very sad to waste it on what perhaps could be a misunderstanding.

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Originally Posted by PRO-DIP LIMPOPO

Brickburn, I sure hope so... I do feel sorry for dsweber and will look into the matter as far as possible on this side.

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Yip, you're right. I just couldn't leave the foray... suppose it's my "female instinct" to help where needed. One correction though: "I'm not going anywhere", it's only my dear husband going back and forth. With less clients in camp, I have more time on my hands for Prodip, my kids and ofcourse, AH clients's Dipping problems. Might not be able to solve them all, but it might be worth a try...

With all due respect, here is why Pro Dip should have stayed out of the conversation.

1) She has a conflict of interest. The reason she now has the Motshwere business is because Oberholzer taxidermy was not playing nicely with the outfitters shenanigans. This is not an indictment on Pro Dip for securing the new business, but I suspect the relationship will not always be a honeymoon.

2) Also, I want to disclose the following. This past week, after my many emails, the outfitter (Motshwere)sent a message to Oberholzer that the trophies have been mixed up and that my father's Wildebeest was at the Motshwere's "new dip/pack" business partner. The new "dip/pack" was bringing the wildebeest into town to drop at the NTK store for pickup by Oberholzer (original taxidermist). After receiving this wildebeest, it is clear that this skull was a replacement/spare and was being passed off as my father's. Problem is that my father's wildebeest is superb with goal post horns, this one was OK and had the traditional drop and curl. Of course there was no zebra with it.

Also, the outfitter called Oberholzer to complain TO Oberholzer as to why they would tell me (the client) that they had received a replacement skull.

3) Pro-dip, I will not go so far as to say you tried to defraud me for Motshwere or even that you are complicit in this illegality. However, it seems like the preponderance of the evidence suggests you are way too protective of a situation you know nothing about. The argument could be made that you are the new dip/pack and the new dip/pack tried to offer a replacement without clear acknowledgement.

Be careful to bring your business to an open forum, unless you are willing to have your dirty laundry aired. I have asked Oberholzer to hold the replacement skull for the province investigators so that they could document the fraudulent passing off of illegimate trophies.

Wow! I'm still trying to swollow everything said, but point well taken. I can assure you that there was no clear acknowledgement about the whereabouts of this issue until you revealed the name of your Outfitter a few nights ago. That's why I was so shocked when I heard about it. Have I known, I would not have been dragged into this at all. There seems to be some serious issues to be sorted out that happened before my time. I think the sideline sounds more comfortable right now...

dsweber

Since i started reading this forum i am interested if any new - information is coming forth.

This could be a learning point for everyone on the AH Forum.

As many on this Forum travel to Africa, and this is a stumbling block i am looking to see what i could do different from you so that it does not happen to me.

Just interested - not trying to stir the pot...

James,

We are at the negotiation stage. I will update soon.

thank you

Just reading this whole thing as a neutral party, let me say this... And, I hope every outfitter everywhere reads this... I have hunted with 3 different oufitters in SA over the years....Speaking as a client and customer, it's my opinion that the outfitter has the ultimate responsibility in making absolutely certain that their clients' trophies are professionally cared for. Outfitters, taxidermists, and dip & packers need to understand that what is just another cape, skull, or set of horns to you is a treasured trophy to the client who, in reality, will end up spending 3-4 times the original trophy fee by the time the animal is hanging on the wall. A lot of American clients save for years, if not their whole lives to hunt SA. It's a dream come true for most of us, and an expensive dream at that...

As far as I'm concerned, if I book the hunt with the outfitter, I trust my trophies to the care of the outfitter. Nobody else. The outfitter took the responsibility for my hunt, my trophies, and their reputation when they took my money.... If you cannot trust your clients' trophies to the people you do business with, that's your problem...End of story! No excuses.... If my outfitter let this happen, I would be livid, and not near as kind as this poor guy has been... Any outfitter worth his salt would do whatever was necessary until the issue was resolved and the client was satisfied.

And for the Pro Dip lady, no disrespect, but stop it with the little blind girl story... I'm sorry if that's the truth, and that poor girl has a disability, but that has nothing to do with her father being a disreputable businessman. He needs to step up and do the right thing for his client...

I wanted to update this thread with this sorry state of affairs. I want to be as fair as possible so this will be a little long winded. First, let me say that without this forum and its members, I would not have been able to obtain the truth from all parties. Thanks for the support. 2nd, I want to say that there are 2 sides to every story. In addition, the outfitter treated us very well when we were in hunting camp with them.

That said, the following is information that will show that the outfitter, MOTSWHERE SAFARIS, attempted to defraud my father and me. Essentially, after all the negative publicity on this forum, MOTSHWERE called the original taxidermist (Caryn and Maans Oberholzer) to let them know that my fathers trophies would be coming from another taxidermist to be included in my shipment. The quotes from all parties are attached. I have emails to back up the entire thread.

" I am so sorry for not getting back to you but while you are talking to Werner about us ask him when is he bringing your dads skins to us that we can start with is skins. That s why I didn’t reply you he said that he will bring them May 28 that is why I emailed you that Wednesday and let you know that your dads skins did not have the correct tags on but Nels tags and that is why we don’t have your dads skins and it is still with Werner. I thought I will have the 2 skins by now but I don’t! yours are completed with no problem I will attach your shipping quote as well but I can’t give you anything on your dads. I understand that you are angry at us right now but I can’t keep you in the dark any longer I have a business to look after and n good one that" (Oberholzer #1)

After this trade of emails, Oberholzer notified me that the outfitter, MOTSHWERE (Werner) told them that another taxidermist (PRO DIP LIMPOPO – member of this forum) would be bringing a wildebeest skull to be given to Oberholzers for packing.

"Werner let Maans know that we should pick up your dads skins at Ntk (farm shop) at 11 o clock today and not at the other dip and pack facility. I was there 11:30 and there was only a wildebeest cape and skull then I went back there 1 o clock and after 2…. Still no zebra skin, and if that’s a wildebeest flatskin I picked up I can close my doors of my taxidermy because I promise that is a cape. I left Werner a message but still no response" (Oberholzer #2)

It is evident that the outfitter knew that they were purposefully defrauding me based upon their email that testifies that all trophies were dropped at Oberholzers. It is not logical that the trophies would then come from another taxidermist.

“ Dean,

Hereby I confirm that Koos Nel the Ph and I both gave all your trophies off at Oberholzer Taxidermy. Koos and I will go to Oberholzer Taxidermy on Wednesday and see if we can find your trophies. If not I shall pay for your loss. I shall pay for the trophies if we can’t find them. I am at the Kruger busy with clients and will be back on Wednesday.”
Werner Lewies
Motshwere Safaris and Outfitters
Home
Tel. +27783434211 GMT+2


It is also evident of the intent to defraud by the quote from Sandy at PRO DIP LIMPOPO below. She indicates that she was to bring a wildebeest trophy for replacement for a client. This skull is the same one that MOTSHWERE told Oberholzer to pickup for my father's trophy. In addition, she indicates that MOTSHWERE planned to substitute a zebra skin also. Once again the quote is below and the original email is available to any who would question the validity. Werner is MOTSHWERE.

"As I left, Werner asked me if I perhaps have a spare Bluewildebeest Skull and Cape, as he needed one for a client who's stuff is with Maans Oberholzer's Taxidermy. We arranged for me to drop it off at the NTK in town, he will make sure Maans would pick it up there. He never mentioned your name at all, and I never saw any connection to this particular BWB, and the one "some guy on AH mentioned in his forum" if you know what I mean? How small could the world be? He also mentioned that he would add a Zebra flatskin to the BWB the next day now that I think about it. " (Sandy- PRO DIP LIMPOPO)

Let's summarize! We have one taxidermist (Oberholzer), who is saying that MOTSHWERE would be bringing my father's trophies to them. We have a 2nd taxidermist (Sandy-PRO DIP LIMPOPO), who has stated on a public forum that they are MOTSHWERE’s new taxidermist. The new taxidermist (Sandy) says that she was asked by MOTSHWERE to bring a substitute skull and cape.

The point of this post is to clarify that MOTSHWERE SAFARIS somehow lost my father’s trophies. Whether this is due to a lack of organization on the outfitters part or the taxidermists part is not at issue here. The issue is that the outfitter communicated sparsely and poorly with both myself and the taxidermist. Then, MOTSHWERE SAFARIS decided to defraud me by replacing legally taken trophies with trophies that were not taken legally by my father. This experience has been the most disheartening example of the negative side of the South African hunting that I have come across.

My fellow hunters, please be careful in spending you hard earned dollars without doing the proper research.

dsweber

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The point of this post is to clarify that MOTSHWERE SAFARIS somehow lost my father’s trophies. Whether this is due to a lack of organization on the outfitters part or the taxidermists part is not at issue here. The issue is that the outfitter communicated sparsely and poorly with both myself and the taxidermist. Then, MOTSHWERE SAFARIS decided to defraud me by replacing legally taken trophies with trophies that were not taken legally by my father. This experience has been the most disheartening example of the negative side of the South African hunting that I have come across.

My fellow hunters, please be careful in spending you hard earned dollars without doing the proper research.

dsweber

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Thanks for summing up your experiences. My friend who hunted with Werner (Motshwere)....said they had nice animals. But were always being pressured to add animals and he thought they were disorganized on the paperwork end on the operation....were not organized. And I admit that frustrates me too! And he thought the there was problems on the taxidermy end. Other than that he said Werner and his family were very religious and nice people to spend the hunt with.