Rifle as a Tip for PH

I was interested in knowing if anyone has left a rifle in SA as a tip for their PH. Also if there is any legal issues involved with not bringing the rifle back to the U.S.

Hallo JamieD
Many years back it was not a problem to leave a rifle back in South Africa i got a few like that , even bought rifles in Germany and the US and did ask my clients to bring them with, now it is totally different and i will not do it anymore. They will check the ser number of your rifle when you enter SA and they will check your rifles going back home. Just to make life easy for you do not leave any rifles in SA.
Johan

Isnt there also quite a bit of work someone has to do to own a rifle in RSA? I thought I remember a PH there telling me it was a pain if they even wanted to buy a new gun and sometimes took months. Maybe I am confused with another country, but I thought it was RSA.

It was my understanding after talking with someone we know who works at SAPS that there was just a form the PH needed to fill out a few months before we got there...some type of import form. I was hoping that was all there was to it on the SA end...if there is more to it than that I am all ears. I was originally wondering if anyone knows the procedure on the US side. ?

Hi Bushbuck
Back then you had to give me a letter stating you give me the rifle together with the value of the gun then i did pay import tax on the gun, then could apply for the licence all of this while my new gun is with a police office and we hope it is in a dry safe area so we do not get any rust, sometimes for up to 6 months, now it is just not possible as we must do way to much paperwork and then you are not sure if they will give you the licence. We had to reapply for all our rifle licences sometime back i am waiting almost two years now .

JamieD,

The PH on this side will need to apply for a permanenet import permit this has to be done way ahead of time before you arrive and I think you will need to get the correct export papers from your side. It can be done but its not easy and it isnt a tip anymore as the PH will know what he is getting before the hunt is finished

Originally Posted by hunting

Hi Bushbuck
Back then you had to give me a letter stating you give me the rifle together with the value of the gun then i did pay import tax on the gun, then could apply for the licence all of this while my new gun is with a police office and we hope it is in a dry safe area so we do not get any rust, sometimes for up to 6 months, now it is just not possible as we must do way to much paperwork and then you are not sure if they will give you the licence. We had to reapply for all our rifle licences sometime back i am waiting almost two years now .

That's what I remember someone saying. I just would not like giving my firearm to a local police station for months or years. I believe the PH that I talked to also told me there was a good chance that gun would ....disappear in that time..

I think it is better if you are going to tip your PH just to give him old fashioned greenbacks.

Honestly, i would be more concerned about the U.S. side. Leaving with a firearm and not coming back with one. Unless of course it fell out of the boat on a hippo. hunt or something......

Tom, does the US government keep track of the guns you leave the country with, or only pay attention when you come back in.

The rifle was actually purchased for the PH (as he said guns are expensive and hard to find in SA). He intends to pay for it so thus no surprise, but I thought if things went well it could be my tip. Our friend in SAPS said that if the papers were done three months ahead it wouldn't be to much trouble, (how informed he is we can't be sure). Our concern was the US and had thought about something similar to what Tom had said (how would US customs know the difference) but thought we should at least look into the trouble we could get ourselves in before we do someone a favor.

Jamie, thats a little different than actually giving your PH a gun as a tip.
I have had PH's before ask me to bring them over a Bow and other hunting items as I could get them for much less then they could. When it came time to settle the bill at the end of the hunt, the cost owed for those items to me was part of there tip instead of just exchanging money back and forth. So if he asked you to buy him a gun and he intends to pay for it, I would just make sure that does not come under any firearms dealer laws and the proper legal way to do it. This would have nothing to do with a tip per se.

Quite contrary to Tom’s post my concern would only be toward the regulatory laws of gun importation of the country I was visiting.

Upon leaving the U.S. the only paperwork I have ever filled out was an airline required declaration that I was carrying a firearm and that it was unloaded. Yet in nearly every foreign country I’ve entered with a firearm over the years a local customs official/police official has required me to submit some sort of paperwork with a description and serial number of the firearm(s) upon entering that country. When leaving the foreign country a firearms inspection was conducted by customs officials/police officials to verify that I was in fact leaving with the specific firearm(s) I entered with.

Upon returning to the U.S. the only thing I have ever been asked to submit was a 4457 form to customs officials to show that I possessed the firearm(s), or other items of value, before I left. The purpose of the 4457 form is to eliminate previously owned items from import duty tax.

Like many of us here I have several 4457 forms with multiple firearms and/or other items of value listed on each form. I take the appropriate 4457 form(s) that lists the particular firearm(s) I m taking with me on a trip. Upon returning I’ve yet to have a customs official ask me why I was not in immediate possession of the additional listed items. And, unless something has recently changed I’m also unaware of any U.S. law which prohibits me from making a personal gift.

Some really good information posted... Here is from the US side of things on GUIDELINES FOR THE PERMANENT EXPORT OF FIREARMS AND AMMUNITION.

Permanently exporting a firearm from the US would require you to contact the U.S. Department of States Directorate of Defense Trade Controls (DDTC) at www.pmddtc.state.gov and send in Form DSP-5 (Application/License for Permanent Export of Unclassified Defense Articles and Related Unclassified Technical Data), this form can be found at the following link: Form DSP-5. Once you have downloaded the form, you will need to download the following executable file: PureEdge Form Viewer from the DDTC, and install it on your computer in order to view and open the Form DSP-5.

The Guidelines and Instructions pertaining to Firearms Guidance can be found in a pdf format at the following link: Firearms Guidance.

U.S. persons not in the business of manufacturing or exporting defense articles, related technical data, or furnishing defense services as defined in the ITAR may request a one-time exemption from the registration requirements. Please note the one-time exception request in section V. EXEMPTION of the Firearms Guidance file.

Jerome, thanks for the informative post.

Tom, my apologies to you. You were right, I stand corrected. I should have known there would be some obscure directive regulating the gift giving of firearms and ammunition on foreign soil. These days there seems to be a law regulating just about everything.

It's a good thing I don't leave rifles behind as tips. But if I ever did decide to do so I'll be sure to follow the DDTC directive (yeah, sure). Oh, BTW, on my next trip if I decide to lighten my baggage load for my return flight I'll be sure to blast away and shoot up all my remaining ammunition rather leave it behind for someone else. I wouldn't want to violate the ammunition provision of the DDTC directive either (wink, wink).

Does anyone know about the Namibian regulations on giving a ph a rifle as a tip? I understand I would have to comply with the U.S. export regs.

Rifles get lost/stolen/ or are unrecovered in a charge RIGHT, what happens then.... There are ways around it.