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DNA test on hunting trophy

This is a discussion on DNA test on hunting trophy within the Before & After the Hunt forums, part of the HUNT AFRICA category; even the skull isn't done right to much oil still in the bone I don't think US F&W would have ...

  1. #41
    Bobpuckett's Avatar
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    even the skull isn't done right to much oil still in the bone I don't think US F&W would have even let it in the country.
    Enjoy life now -- it has an expiration date.

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    I am pretty sure a roicat are so small that a freezer would cool it down fast enough to save the skin. But the trick are to conserve the skin fast enough when it thaws, because its very likely to be damaged in that prosess.
    Regards the gemsbok scull, its very likely to fall apart when boiled, but its normally possible to glue it together again. The replacement scull you got are crap work, just like the cat. I am truly sorry for you.
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  3. #43
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    I agree with Trond you got the animal in the freezer soon enough that the pelt should have been fine, As someone who trapped in Alaska for many years one of the key things that I liked about trapping there was that small animal caught in trap would expire very quickly and in the below freezing temp they would freeze and preserve the pelt and if weather got to bad that you couldn't get out to get them right away you had nothing to worry about except other animals I never lost one pelt to freezing. and by small I mean lynx and smaller
    Enjoy life now -- it has an expiration date.

  4. #44
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    I have also done it a lot, put small animals into the freezer and it was never a problem. But the taxidermist is now trying to manoever the discussion into bad field preparation and so it will be all my own fault. The taxidermists who have seen the rooikat all say that it is a very old trophee (at least 10 years old, maybe 30). I'll seek some expert advice on this and will report back to the forum.

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    Bart,
    Did you get a hold oh Martin?
    Second of all, what I have found is that you really have to try your best to create hair slip on an animal. Touch wood, we have never had a single case. I believe, and its only my opinion, that hair slip occurs when a number of factors are present. Not just something as simple as cooling the animal down as quickly as possible, which I guess is rule #1. We have hunted many animals during summer months, and the best we can do is cape the animals as quickly as possible and not a single case thus far.
    When I was a youngster, I shot my first blue wildebeest. Without knowing about trophy preparation, the animal was skinned for a rug. Off I went home with the flat-skin, climbed to the roof with the skin and a table salt shaker. I laid the skin open with the hair side down. I "salted" the skin, but how much salt can come from a "shaker", right? That hide was on top of the roof in sun, rain and whatever for about 7 months. I then found out that you had to tan it, to get it soft. Got it taken to the tannery, who told me that the skin was in bad shape. Who could have guessed. That skin has now been with me for 17 years, without a single patch of hair slip. It still lies on my porch to this day.
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  6. #46
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    You get hair slippage because of bacteria growth or cutting/scraping the skin to thin when tanning it.
    The bacteria growth is the reason why you salt the skins if you don't freeze them before you send them off for tanning.

    No way you would get enough bacteria growth on the inside of the skin of a Lynx during the time till it got frozen inside the skin in a freezer.
    My guess is that the taxidermist didn't skin the Lynx and started the tanning process as soon as it started to thaw.
    Something that has been frozen will get very quick bacteria growth in warm conditions when it has thawed.

  7. #47
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    Hi folks,
    before I say a word about the caracal, I have to see it directly, that will happen within the next days. Itエs still open!

    But about the Gemsbuck I have to tell my experience, in 95 % of headshots the skull is destroyed - and gemsbuck skull bone structure is not that hard as eland or kudu! So MAYBE the taxidermist wanted indeed to do you a favour and replace the skull. My way of working would have been to tell the client that it is destroyed, what chance there is to repair it and let the client decide.

    I think there is a big big difference if you freeze an animal that size in southern africa or in europe/america. Here in europe I do it very often if there is no chance or time to skin it directly. But our climate is different. When defreezing, nothing happens normally. Only in hot summertime I have to start skinning while it is defreezing, sometimes difficult. If you wait too long it becomes "hot" on the outside while in it it is still frozen. And that is what could happen in africa. I highly recommend skinning as fast as possible. And normally PHエs know exactly what to do, and normally they have their skinners.

    Weエll see about the caracal...

  8. #48
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    My guess Martin, is that the taxidermist has no or very little experience with frozen animals.

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Norwegianwoods View Post
    You get hair slippage because of bacteria growth or cutting/scraping the skin to thin when tanning it.
    The bacteria growth is the reason why you salt the skins if you don't freeze them before you send them off for tanning.



    The first step of tanning a skin is to put it into acid solution, that stopps all bacteria growing! So hair slippage starts before that. The problem is often you canエt see it before tanning. Unfortunately I had this before on african skins. They came in in optical good condition, but while tanning the desaster came quick.
    As I stated before:
    skin the animal as fast as possible! I recommend to wash it first with cold water, then put it into salt solution (cold water and so much salt that after mixing salt cristals are still visible, so you can be sure that enough salt is in). That makes sure that salt gets everywhere ( it often happens that if you lay it just after skinning on the ground the skins gets small folds and dry salt canエt go through). Leave it there for a few hours and then dry salt it. Use just "normal" salt. No need to do it with "special taxidermists or tanning salt". Let the skin dry slowly in a shadow place, good if you change the salt again after 1 or two days, fold it before totally dry, and donエt forget to put a tag on ;-)

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Norwegianwoods View Post
    My guess Martin, is that the taxidermist has no or very little experience with frozen animals.
    That could be the reason... Itエs all about understanding taxidermy, tanning, dealing with skins...

  11. #51
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    Bart, on a lighter side.....
    Maybe you can sell that rooikat trophy after all this is done to a movie company so it can be used in a HORROR film....?
    You should have seen my son's face when he saw it....
    Edward Els
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    Quote Originally Posted by EDD View Post
    Bart, on a lighter side.....
    Maybe you can sell that rooikat trophy after all this is done to a movie company so it can be used in a HORROR film....?
    You should have seen my son's face when he saw it....
    You should have seen my face

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bart View Post
    You should have seen my face
    LOL, sorry, I know its a sensitive subject, but that response was priceless.
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  14. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bart View Post




    l. My oryx was shot right between the eyes with a .300 win mag 168 grain Barnes TTSX Bullet from a distance of about a 100 metres. I was especially proud of the shot cause i know that in SA everybody shoots between the eyes, but we european hunters are not used to it.
    Bart sorry to hear about this and i hope you get to the bottom of it, however you state that everybody shoots their animals between the eyes in SA, i would say the reason for this is they are mostly hunting for meat and use the head and neck shots so there is minimum wastage of meat. it should be the last resort when going for a trophy as you end up with the problems you have experienced.

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    [QUOTE=spike.t;76714]
    Quote Originally Posted by Bart View Post




    l. My oryx was shot right between the eyes with a .300 win mag 168 grain Barnes TTSX Bullet from a distance of about a 100 metres. I was especially proud of the shot cause i know that in SA everybody shoots between the eyes, but we european hunters are not used to it.

    Bart sorry to hear about this and i hope you get to the bottom of it, however you state that everybody shoots their animals between the eyes in SA, i would say the reason for this is they are mostly hunting for meat and use the head and neck shots so there is minimum wastage of meat. it should be the last resort when going for a trophy as you end up with the problems you have experienced.
    Spike, you are correct. It is customary for locals to shoot head and neck shots during meat hunts or culls, but this is purely to save on meat damage. I will never ask anyone of my hunters to shoot a head shot. The risk of shooting the jaw off is just too high, and I can't think of anything worse for an animal. Neck shot, it would depend on the shots taken by the hunter in previous days and the results, how good the trophy is, like a 40" Eland or something along those lines, distance of the shot, and that there is no other way to get a body shot. A high neck shot, where the scull joins the neck, can be devastating, even missing the spine, an animal will drop, just from the shock.
    Marius Goosen
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    After hunting in the same place lots of times and after about 50 succes shots, i got permission for head shots if i judged that it was possible and if i was confident i would not miss. This one was shot from a sandbag with a totally stable gun, home made ammunition which i trust and a perfectly sighted in rifle in wind stil conditions. There was no other way to shoot it. I totally agree 100 % that head shots should not be used and maybe i should not have mentioned it on the forum, cause maybe some readers get wrong ideas about those shots. Apologies

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bart View Post
    After hunting in the same place lots of times and after about 50 succes shots, i got permission for head shots if i judged that it was possible and if i was confident i would not miss. This one was shot from a sandbag with a totally stable gun, home made ammunition which i trust and a perfectly sighted in rifle in wind stil conditions. There was no other way to shoot it. I totally agree 100 % that head shots should not be used and maybe i should not have mentioned it on the forum, cause maybe some readers get wrong ideas about those shots. Apologies
    no need to apologise bart, as i said if its the last resort then you have to decide if thats the shot to take, you just have to realise that there will be damage....

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    lets us know what the outcome will be, sounds like could cost a lot but worth it ! cheers

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    I believe this is the Picture BRICKBURN has been trying to load. Tell us about it Wayne
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Enjoy life now -- it has an expiration date.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bobpuckett View Post
    I believe this is the Picture BRICKBURN has been trying to load. Tell us about it Wayne
    Bliksem!
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