Which .416 and why?
This is a discussion on Which .416 and why? within the .375 & Up forums, part of the Firearms & Ammunition category; My favorite cartridge is the 404 Jefferys, but thats mostly nostalgia on my part...It is also expensive to build and ...
07-05-2009, 10:13 AM #21
My favorite cartridge is the 404 Jefferys, but thats mostly nostalgia on my part...It is also expensive to build and is more costly than the others you mention..
The .416 Rem. or the 416 Ruger is a perfect choice for anyone to shoot the largest game on this planet..
I don't like the .416 Rigby because if I have to use and action/rifle that big then I would opt to make it a 500 of some sort. I don't approve of building 416 Rigbys on standard size 98 actions as you must remove too much metal IMO, it has been done, but its a poor practice IMO, and why would you when you can get the same ballistics with a smaller case like the 416 REm or Ruger.
I guess if push came to shove the .416 Rem. would still be my choice. It has served me so well that it would be hard to say anything bad about it...RAY ATKINSON
07-05-2009, 10:51 AM #22
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BangFlop . . . without a doubt all of the calibers you mentioned are fine hunting cartridges and capable of dispatching the largest of game. However, I do agree with Ray that from a practical point of view itís pretty hard to beat the .416 Rem.There is only one degree of dead . . . there are many degrees of wounded
07-05-2009, 06:06 PM #23
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shooting big recoil guns
I have tested many magnums in order to get into what you would call a stoper minium caliber 416. I like and own 416rem. in model 70. recoil -two things- bullet weight and stock design the cz 550 seem to all shoot very good as do the winchesters. After your sighted in you should practice off hand or on stix you will not have a problem with recoil.I have a model 70 safri express 416 rem. mag for sale action has been glass beded this one shoots verry good with hand loads 400 gr. bear claw and hornady solids same point of impact barnes solids also shot good rifle has leupold 1.75 / 6 with german #4 reticle this is a real good set up all amo goes with rifle 1 box bear claw 3box solids $ 2200 with realod resipe extra brass avalible
07-06-2009, 04:28 AM #24
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I returned from Africa last October where I spent 6 days in South Africa and 12 days in Zimbabwe an experience all hunters should try to achieve in their lifetime. I went with a friend and we both took 416 Rigby's. Mine was a CZ 550 with bedded action my friend Chris took a HS Precision. This was great because if something was lost for one of us it could be covered by the other. So my recommendation is take a buddy with similar goals.
We chose the Rigby because it is usually loaded down for comfort and reliability. However in reloading tests we found that the Rigby still had incredible performance up its sleeve and turned out to be one of the best long range performers I have ever had the pleasure to deal with. Our loads were identical for both rifles and we used GS Custom's 330 grain HV projectile with drive band technology. The drive bands allow this solid copper hollow point projectile to operate at incredible lower pressure than any other commercial projectile and the hydraulic damage done to the 25 animals taken on our safari by this projectile was amazing. Even our PH's had not experienced anything like it and the bullets are made in South Africa.
Our specific hand load was 112 grains of ADI 2209 a favorite here in Australia. It is in the H4350 burning range. In fact ADi make Hogdens powders so it may be the same powder with the exception of batching variations. This is a compressed load but there was little sign of pressure until we reached 113.5 grains of 2209.
At 112 grains the 330 grain GS Custom projectile leaves the CZ barrel at 2975 fps and the HS Custom Barrel at 3050 fps. It produces and incredible 7,000 foot pounds of energy at the barrel with obviously devastating effect on the wild life. Mind you it was equally sore shoulder material when sighting it in but well worth the effort. This makes the Rigby not only a great dangerous game rifle but also twice as good as any high velocity 30 cal. on plains game.
Accuracy was also very good with the HS PRecision shooting its best group of 1.8 inches at 300 yards and the CZ 2.215 inches at 300 yards.
Whist on the African continent we felt just as confident to tackling buffalo and elephant as we did on plains game. Do not believe what your told about too much power because once your there you will not flinch because of power as your heart will already be racing with the excitement of the hunt.
I have just received my new 416 Ruger in 416 which I will be working with developing loads using the same GS Custom projectiles. This rifle will go to Canada this year with me for Moose, Black bear, Elk and Whitetail. Can't wait.
In any case good luck in Africa and I am sure it will be an everlasting memory regardless which cartridge you take with you.
07-10-2009, 08:25 AM #25
Thanks heaps everyone for all the great first-hand info. I will let everyone know what I eventually acquire. In the mean time - shoot straight!:) SCI, B&C, NRA, NAHC
07-10-2009, 09:41 AM #26
My first post aside, and I will always be a .416 Rem. fan, but I think the .416 Ruger may have the brightest future of them all..It has a bunch to offer, ammo is cheap, brass is available, bullets available, short action, light rifle, same balistics as the .416 Rem, and Rigby, same recoil.
It really has a lot going for it..I wouldn't run out and sell my .416 Rem or 404 Jefferys to buy one, but if I was looking for a .416 I would surely give the .416 Ruger a close look, and in fact, it would probably be my choice today..RAY ATKINSON
07-10-2009, 09:53 AM #27
Right now a Ruger Hawkeye Alaskan in .416 Ruger is at the top of my list. Hard to knock the quality of the Hawkeye or the price and availability of the ammo (at least in the U.S.). The package I am looking at would get me a rifle, QD scope mounts, low power scope and 200 rounds of ammo for just under $1400.
Now all I need is to get the 1400 clams ... thanks for your input.:) SCI, B&C, NRA, NAHC
07-11-2009, 06:26 AM #28
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BangFlop, it appears you have made you decision and I know it will serve you well. I was late to this thread so I must put in my two cents and support the 416 Taylor. It did a great job for me last year on Elephant and Hippo. The recoil is very managable and with a composite thumb hole stock is not hard to carry.
07-11-2009, 11:33 AM #29
I do like the 416 Taylor and the 404 Jeff - if I were to find a great deal on one of these before I got my Ruger (a year or two away from that) it would be awfully hard not to snatch it up ....
Thanks:) SCI, B&C, NRA, NAHC
07-11-2009, 01:31 PM #30
Let's hear it for the 416 Rigby!
Every 416 cartridge measures itself against the 416 Rigby and they all strive to equal or better it, although none of them has made any advance of any significance. The fact that the 416 Rigby is still going strong after 98 years speaks for itself.
This is a cartridge that has it all: reliability, punch, reliability, accuracy, reliability, pedigree, reliability, low-pressure. The recoil is a shove, which is easy to absorb, rather than the hard punch that the other 416's give.
416 Rigby ammunition is loaded by a good range of manufacturers and there are plenty of formulae available for the hand-loading enthusiast. You'll also have a better chance of picking up 416 Rigby ammunition in the more obscure parts of Africa.
When hunting Dangerous Game, the number one priority is reliability and this gives the 416 Rigby an unreachable edge the other contenders. It just will not let you down.
416 Weatherby? - Brutal to handle and unnecessarily fast. 416 Remington? - Bigger recoil and only marginally greater speed claimed. 416 Dakota? - Bigger recoil, marginal greater speed claimed. 416 various wildcats? - Virtually identical balistics and no pedigree.
I think that whether you are hunting Lion, Elephant or Buffalo, a 416 Rigby with a Mauser action is without doubt the best of the 416 stable. It will not leave you holding a jammed gum while you stare at the approaching enraged beast. It's also a great single safari rifle because it will reach out and take smaller game with accuracy. I have a 416 Rigby which I had made by W Jeffery; it is a great gun. Let's hear it for the 416 Rigby
07-11-2009, 10:34 PM #31
I agree with Outback boy, the 416 Rigby, even with 400 gr. bullets can produce 416 Wby muzzle velocities as it is nothing more than a 416 Wby with the belt removed..
However it is traditionally loaded at .416 Rem. and 416 Ruger velocity of a 400 gr. bullet at 2400 FPS, that is the African standard that has proven itself for many years now..
Based on that and scrapping all the hype, they are all equal and the Rem and Ruger can be built much lighter on smaller actions..To build a .416 Rigby on a std. Mauser 98 action is not a particularly good idea as one must remove too much metal in the front of the action and too much in the rear to take the massive cartridge that it was not designed for..It has been done and was done a few times by Westley Richards but it is frowned upon by the experts.
The Rigby shoud be built on the CZ or a Magnum Mod. 20 mauser type action.
My other issue with the .416 Rigby is if I have to build a rifle with that big action and that heavy, then I would probably opt for a 500 Jefferys or even a 505 gibbs as the action is big enough for the biggest of big bore bolt calibers.
Not saying the 416 Rigby isn't a grand caliber and I know it works, but it is an old round and outdated IMO unless you can stand the recoil and load it to the gills, and with some attention to performance such as Outback boy does his, then it is something to behold, but only a very few actually do that as recoil becomes a real problem for most of us at those velocities.
If your a nostalgic then it has its place, much the same as I am with my 404 Jefferys, but I don't kid myself about its pros and cons just because I have one..I know under normal circumstances the 416 Rem or Ruger will do exactly the same thing and the same goes for the 416 Rigby.
Just a different perspective on the subject.RAY ATKINSON
07-14-2009, 07:38 PM #32
10-07-2009, 01:12 PM #33
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After being a FFL dealer for 23 years and hunting all over the world I will offer my opinion for your question. If I were you,I would purchase the Ruger in 416 Rigby. This is an excellent rifle for the price and the 416 is a fantastic cartridge. Bear in mind that the Rigby round operates at very low pressures and you will NEVER have sticky extraction in the hot climate of Africa. If you don't reload, you may want to consider this as an excellent addition to your hobby! You will save a "pile" of money and will enjoy "rolling your own"! You may also find that your hand loads will be more accurate than those purchased over the counter. I hope that I have helped you in your choice of calibers and that you have a fantastic hunt in Africa.
10-07-2009, 03:42 PM #34
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Your post just made me even happier with my recent rifle choice!
I bought a Ruger 77RSM in .416 Rigby and I'm hand loading for it. The rifle's balance, accuracy and quality are everything that I hoped they would be. So far, loading for it is proving no more difficult than any other caliber.
If I get 4 loadings out of a piece of brass, it's only going to cost about $2.25 a shot with premium bullets.
10-07-2009, 03:50 PM #35
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10-07-2009, 06:41 PM #36
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I'm absolutely no big-bore expert, but I'm casting my vote for the .416 Rigby. Why? Because there is nothing wrong with it, it's big enough for the job, I don't have to walk a thin line with pressures when handloading, it's got an outstanding history in Africa, and because it's simply a lot of fun to plunk one of the rounds down in front of your buddies, especially when they ask what made that divot in your forehead. Actually that last part hasn't happened yet, but it's something that might someday.