.404 JEFFERY - A PH's point of view.

ah well just off down to the pub for a few, will be interesting to see whats on here later !!

Originally Posted by DOCMAN

Geez, but it's fun to stir a bit on a boring Wednesday afternoon...

If you bored get to the Bottelstoor tel#014 503 0034 (sorry, it's the only one I am familiar with) guess it would be quite a drive, have a good afternoon Doc.

Originally Posted by Wolverine67

Dont bash my beloved workhorse, Remington 700......Seriously, I can drop it in the mud and it will shoot like a dream anyway. Simple and strong.

That pretty much sums my experience with Remingtons.

Originally Posted by spike.t

jaco is that a pic of your double?

Yup don't shoot them anymore though expensive thing to own... Cheaper to rent!

I wonder what Docman thinks about someone coming with a Ruger Alaskan in 375 Ruger

The only gun I have ever disliked to shoot was a light Weatherby rifle with a crap stock in 460 Wby.

The .404 is a favorite of mine as most of you know. Never hunted with it but am sure when I do, it will be as advertised, an excellent caliber. Mine shoots really well, a CZ Safari Classics model with Nikon Monarch African 1-4 scope in Warne lever mounts.

Originally Posted by Jaco Strauss

Yup don't shoot them anymore though expensive thing to own... Cheaper to rent!

YUP!!!! problem is that can get you into a lot of crap, or so i have been told!! not from personal experience of course a friend of ours who is no longer with us, always said if it flys, floats or f-cks rent it!, and among other things he had his own airline.

Just a rookie here when it comes to large dangerous game, but since I bought a .375 H&H, I like this thread. I've always thought of myself as able, practical, wise and knowledgeable (as well as modest!)
Glad everyone is taking this in the fun-loving spirit it was intended.

Originally Posted by DOCMAN

"When a client shows up in camp with a .375 Holland & Holland, you immediately know that have a practical and able chap as a customer, a wise and knowledgeable hunter who will listen to reason.

When a client shows up in camp with a .458 Win Mag, you know that most likely the only experience the hunter has had is reading the pages of Outdoor Life magazine, probably 30-year-old editions.

When a client shows up in camp with a Remington or Weatherby in any caliber, you know the hunter's experience probably does not extend past the clerk at the gun counter.

When a client arrives with a double rifle, you know you have an elitist for a customer, much like the guy coming down the charter-boat dock at the marina carrying a fly rod, and you approach him with caution.

When a client shows up with a .416 Rigby, you know you have someone who has studied and respects the rich history and traditions of the sport of dangerous-game hunting.

But when a client shows up in camp with a .404 Jeffery, you know this is someone who cares enough about said history and traditions to go to the immense trouble of obtaining and loading a rifle long sacrificed to the gods of mass production and commercialism. You take a liking to this guy immediately."

Well lets see here. My first DG rifle that I bought was a .375H&H in a Winchester M70 Safari Express making me a practical and able chap. Sounds good so far.

After a year plus breaking in and developing loads for the .375, it seemed that the only thing better than having a DG rifle would be to have two! And the .404 Jeffery was high on my list. But alas after much searching I wasn't able to find one I could afford, could only purchase a new one from CZ that would run a bit more than I could afford. But as fortune would have it, the next best thing showed up, a .416 Rigby CZ with gorgeous wood at a price I was willing to pay. So now I've shown an appreciation for history and tradition. It's sounding even better for me now.

But with that said.......

(Read the following with a somewhat arrogant tone and a British accent a la Prince Charles, easy my U.K. friends, my mom's from Britain)

There is just no other acceptable way to catch a trout than with a 4 or 5 weight flyrod, made of bamboo of course, casting a Pale Morning Dun dry fly, tied by the angler which should go without saying, to a rising trout after a carefully planned and executed stalk of the fish. To throw some sort of mechanical contraption blindly into the water and dragging it through the stream or dare I say hurling bait in front of this noble creature is just.....well.......uncivilized. Wouldn't you say?


In all seriousness I am a fly fishing nut (well I used to be anyway) and cannot bring myself to trout fish in any other way with any enthusiasm, but that's another thread.

Docman,

Was that not written by Robert Boatman? He passed away in 2009.

I have read some of his other articles and were less than impressed, in particular one about CZ in which he berated the American gun manufacturers.

As far as what is written in the OP I take about as much heed to that as this post by me.

Stainless barrels and actions along with synthetic stocks, push feed, muzzle brakes, all Savages, and some Weatherbys are not allowed in Africa.

Originally Posted by spike.t

YUP!!!! problem is that can get you into a lot of crap, or so i have been told!! not from personal experience of course a friend of ours who is no longer with us, always said if it flys, floats or f-cks rent it!, and among other things he had his own airline.

I'll adapt it slightly if it fly's floats or has two barrels ....... Rent it. (just kidding) for years I was after a .500 Jeff to do my back up with put with a family and all modern day financial drains on ones wallet, the next best thing came around....

I had taken 9 buff in 9 seasons with a client and built myself a 460 wby on his account (wby custom).

Now to be honest never look a gift horse in the mouth .... My father use to say and let me tell you boy am I glad I didnt!!!!

It's a dream to shoot NO recoil reducers or breaks... Just fits me well.

My best always.

Originally Posted by DOCMAN

"When a client shows up in camp with a .375 Holland & Holland, you immediately know that have a practical and able chap as a customer, a wise and knowledgeable hunter who will listen to reason.

When a client shows up in camp with a .458 Win Mag, you know that most likely the only experience the hunter has had is reading the pages of Outdoor Life magazine, probably 30-year-old editions.

When a client shows up in camp with a Remington or Weatherby in any caliber, you know the hunter's experience probably does not extend past the clerk at the gun counter.

When a client arrives with a double rifle, you know you have an elitist for a customer, much like the guy coming down the charter-boat dock at the marina carrying a fly rod, and you approach him with caution.

When a client shows up with a .416 Rigby, you know you have someone who has studied and respects the rich history and traditions of the sport of dangerous-game hunting.

But when a client shows up in camp with a .404 Jeffery, you know this is someone who cares enough about said history and traditions to go to the immense trouble of obtaining and loading a rifle long sacrificed to the gods of mass production and commercialism. You take a liking to this guy immediately."

I wonder... where do I stand?
I own a 458 WM (got a killer deal on it), but have hunted the last 35 years...
The 458 WM is a Krieghoff double rifle, which make me an elitist, while I just jumped on it because of the price...
My working rifle is a 375 HH, which does not fit with the above...
And I have been searching for a 416 that I like for quite a while...
I guess that at this point, just looking at a 404 will send me straight into total schizophrenia!!!

Eish! Glad to see my veteran old Parker Hale got left out of the fray! Does it help if the gun (never mind the owner!) has lineage Doc?
Clients with brand new clothes and boots worried me more than the gun they brought! But then even more so if they then couldn't take the bolt out of their guns and the scope came in the manufacturers packaging out of the gun case!
Next was the guy who's visibly reluctant to fire his big bore at the range before the hunt starts saying...nah I'm happy its shooting straight, it sure was back home!
The last was the guy who came on an expensive hunt with a $2 scope mounted!

Ole

Does that mean i do not leave my clothing in camp for the workers anymore.

This year i will have 1 new shirt and 1 new pair of pants and new socks. (usually leave the Stretch wool medium thick socks with the PH). And one new sweet shirt. All with in the past 6 months so they have been worn and broke in.

Does that mean my 40 year old Ruger rifle will fit in even though it is not from the chosen few... New rifles and i have to grow together before i take them on a hunt. I would have no issues taking my 30 year old Weatherby on a Safari...it a shooter...

What get me in this whole thread is what about the hunter who rents a rifle from the PH. Where does he fall... Lower than whale shit, i would guess. So i have been there also and many on here would be in the same boat. Renting a rifle you have never seen or shot before, spells newbee it seems.

Originally Posted by Ole Bally

Eish! Glad to see my veteran old Parker Hale got left out of the fray! Does it help if the gun (never mind the owner!) has lineage Doc?
Clients with brand new clothes and boots worried me more than the gun they brought! But then even more so if they then couldn't take the bolt out of their guns and the scope came in the manufacturers packaging out of the gun case!
Next was the guy who's visibly reluctant to fire his big bore at the range before the hunt starts saying...nah I'm happy its shooting straight, it sure was back home!
The last was the guy who came on an expensive hunt with a $2 scope mounted!

Docman,

Agree with you 100% on this thought stated ....

Monish

Originally Posted by monish

Docman,

Agree with you 100% on this thought stated ....

Monish

LOL...
Your welcome to agree with Doc, but when he state things about different rifles and their owners, you should think about your signature....

Originally Posted by Wolverine67

LOL...
Your welcome to agree with Doc, but when he state things about different rifles and their owners, you should think about your signature....

Originally Posted by James.Grage

Ole

Does that mean i do not leave my clothing in camp for the workers anymore.

This year i will have 1 new shirt and 1 new pair of pants and new socks. (usually leave the Stretch wool medium thick socks with the PH). And one new sweet shirt. All with in the past 6 months so they have been worn and broke in.

Does that mean my 40 year old Ruger rifle will fit in even though it is not from the chosen few... New rifles and i have to grow together before i take them on a hunt. I would have no issues taking my 30 year old Weatherby on a Safari...it a shooter...

What get me in this whole thread is what about the hunter who rents a rifle from the PH. Where does he fall... Lower than whale shit, i would guess. So i have been there also and many on here would be in the same boat. Renting a rifle you have never seen or shot before, spells newbee it seems.

Well i will be renting and leaving my 375 at home due to the hunt not being the first stop or last stop on my travels also going to a different country but not hunting.
So do I get points for owning but lose points for not taking it to hunt with????????

@ James!! Hey whoa there cowboy! It wasn't me who set the boundaries for the rifles!!! However if that Ruger's a #1, leave the durn thing at home! single shot rifles are a PH's bane!!! The Weatherby's a fine choice!
James, just bring lotsa new underwear then OK?!! Wearing the same shirt and pants for the hunts gonna have you sitting up back of the truck a lot....with the leopard bait bucket!
Hiring a rifle isn't a bad thing unless the client doesn't OWN one of his own...then I'd worry! The clients from Canada have a hard time bringing guns through the USA to Zim. So mostly they hire guns! Hopefully the PH has pride in his toys and the gun he hires out is a nice well kept one! But sheesh, if some of the fishing tackle I'm forced to hire at times is anything to go by then I feel for the hunter! I at least take my own reels now!

I own rems rugers wins they all shoot well none of the compomanies can produce junk and get away with it anymore. I say for DG you should really know your rifle regardless of caliber. How can you be intamatly familer with a rental. I always tell my ph I cant shoot Then show my talent at trhe range works every time.