.458 Lott advise
Just purchased a 458 lott ( parker hale 458 win mag rechambered for 458 Lott ) and is my 1st big mag that I am going to the range with soon.
After seeing the you tube videos of people shooting this calibre I am a bit concerned with zeroing the gun/ scope on a bench with sand bags. The lott seems to kick the shoulder back about foot before the round leave the muzzle ? . What kind of groups should I expect at 100-200 yards with a Lott ? I'm used to 1 or 2 inches with the 270 wsm and 06 and have no idea what this gun can or should do.
Another concern is recoil " how bad is it " the biggest gun I have shot so far is 3 1/2 " mag 12 gauge with # 4 turkey load 3 ounce . This shell kicks more then any 12 gauge slug out there and leaves you a bit concussed ( if that a word ). Should I expect more recoil or less recoil from the Lott ?
Expecting to do a safari sometime in the near future so any advice would help.
Well you certainly bit off a big one! For sure use some form of sissy pad as sold in most outdoor stores. Pachmayr makes a good one. Two of them might be in order. Dont shoot off the bench until you have tried it offhand/standing quite a bit. From the bench the recoil will be brutal. A lead sled may be in order for bench work. Dont put a sandbag between you and the gun, as this sometimes leads to broken stocks if wood. If you think your 12 ga. kicks, well.. just wait. Good luck!
Rob 458, sorry if this sounds a little pointed but why would you get a caliber of that size and now be concerned about recoil. It is obvious by your post that you have some aprahansions about shooting it.
As stated above I would get a lead sled or similar for the actual sighting of the rifle. Before you even consider fitting a scope I would do some shooting (off sticks) to get a handle of the recoil. Be prepared it will be considerable. Also I would suggest not trying to shoot to many rounds in a row as this is sure way to develop a flinch.
I would have to strongly agree with sestoppleman and make sure you have lots of padding. I used to shoot 3 1/2" magnum shotgun shells for geese, it's not the same as these big bores. I have experience with the .375 H&H and limited shooting of the .416 Rigby, .404 Jeffery and a single shot from a .505 Gibbs. The .505 has roughly about 10% more recoil energy than the .458 Lott but that's pretty close. I can tell you that the first three cartridges I listed will get your attention but are gentle rounds compared to the .505 Gibbs and it will be a long time before I touch off that .505 again.
So, in addition to what ses says, if you reload I would strongly encourage you to load minimum charge and bullet weight rounds first. I would then take just a few shots for the first few outings and working your way up slowly in total shot count.
The .458 Lott is a big gun for very big game and tight groups at 100 and 200 yards would not be my first priority. Learning to manage the recoil would be my first priority for the first 100 rounds or so. I think if you don't do this, you may never attain good groups with the flinch you develop.
I'm not sure I'd even put a scope on that gun. From what I've read the .458 Lott beats up scopes pretty quickly.
Originally Posted by richteb
Should also have said that the big bores shoot very well indeed if you can handle them, given quality loads.
Rob, here are some recoil figures to put in perspective. Keep in mind that these numbers do not take into consideration how well the rifle fits, nor how sensitive you are to recoil.
375 H&H (10lb gun) 300 gn @ 2572 fps = 40 ft-lb recoil
416 Ruger (9.5lb gun) 400gn @ 2330 fps = 50 ft-lb recoil
458 Lott (10lb gun) 500gn @ 2200 fps = 62 ft-lb recoil.
Now, I don't have a 458 Lott and the load data is from Hornadys reloading manual and the gun weight is based on a CZ ( actually a little less then 10lb according to their catalog).
As you can see from the numbers the recoil of the Lott is 50% more then that of a 375 H&H in the same weight rifle.
My advice is to try out a rifle before buying,there are many ways to do this. Also,forget about 'groups' at 100 and 200 yards, 458's are very rarely,if ever,used at more than 75 yards. Try to work on one shot 'bulls-eye' targets,off shooting sticks,from 25 to 75 yards. Use your iron sights only and if you can 'bulls-eye' all your targets,you are doing well. Remember that big bores and scopes = flinches and stitches !
I use a .375,with different bullets,for anything in Africa.About four months ago,I fired 5 rounds through a friends 458 and there is still no plaque on the teeth I have left..!
Originally Posted by DOCMAN
I think you have hit the nail on the head. I had ago of my PH CZ 458 Lott of stick and after the first shot I handed the rifle back to him with the comment " you can stick that up your a...s" or something to that effect.
Not afraid to admin that is more gun then I can handle. I will stick to my girly 375 and 416 and let the real men of the hunting world shoot stuff like that.
As all the other guys said is that you should have at least taken a few practice shot before you bought the gun. I also shoot a 458 Lott and it is my backup rifle and to think about 1" or 2" groups at 100 yards or so forget that if you ever going to shoot that far with it goodluck because that isn't what it was made for.
My Lott I have shot of the bench before just to check the aim but it was all good. But I also have to say it is a good fitting rifle with mercury in the stock as weel to make it a bit heavier and it shoots like a dream.
As for the scope. I think that was a bad idea from the get go. I would rather use the open sights to start of with and then after you've learned the gun maybe change the back v and the fronit sight or even maybe put on a ghostring or peepsight.
Goodluck with your Lott. If you learn to shoot it you will love the gun!
Rob 458, reading your opening post brought a little smirk to my face as I remembered back some 12 years ago when I was preparing to bench my first 458 Lott round. I know exactly what your in for !
I have been using a nunber of different Lotts in the field now for just over a decade and have fired maybe two thousand full power rounds in the field and at the bench and can tell you now with very little reservation; DITCH THAT STOCK ON THE PAKER-HALE BEFORE YOU SHOOT IT AND CERTAINLY DON'T SHOOT IT SCOPED.
If you were an experienced and hardened big bore shooter and insisted to me that the stock will be fine then I'd just stand back and watch you go BUT (with all due respect) YOUR NOT.
Those old Parker Hales are not conducive to moderating recoil they EXAGERATE IT.
If your not accustomed to it the 458 Lott CAN appear to be quite a handful, but when you've fired a few hundred rounds you'll wonder what all the fuss was about.
All the Lotts I have owned thus far would easily group into 1" at 50yds.
I stress that if your not going to develop a flinch then follow the advise provided above re wearing a pad, ear-plugs AND ear muffs, DON'T SCOPE IT UNTIL YOU KNOW WHAT YOUR UP AGAINST and try slip that gun into a straighter styled stock with little or no cheek-piece.
The 458 Lott is a magnificent cartridge which provides stunning field performance on all manner of large thick skinned game but it will be of little use to you and not very effective if you can't shoot it properly.
I have restocked my Lott to fit me perfectly and my gunsmith have done a little magic with a little extra weight in the stock.Then i do not load my ammo to max,2250 feet per sec are more than enough.I use my Lott and 416 Rigby on a daily basis and you just have to shoot it on very regular intervals,play around with loads and get your gunsmith to fit the gun to fit your profile as near as possible.Use the Lott as a tool and learn yourself to get accustomed to the recoil,dont bother with a scope.The Lott works arounds 50 yards at its best.If doing a dangerous game hunt, it is your PH job to get you in close and back you up if things go wrong.I suggest you just sort out being comfortable with your shooting pipe,if being getting addicted to recoil it might just happen to that you may starting to like shooting big bores.Here in RSA we are members of the bigbore accosiation and we have fun shoot every once in a while.which get you knowing your gun and getting used to the recoil.
well hope you come to stage that you enjoy your Lott.happy shooting
Thanks to everyone for the advise.
No sitting or scope at first till I figure things out and use some type of on body recoil padding but not a sand bag ( I would have never thought of putting a sand bag on my shoulder that a bit ridiculous ). I get all this but am confused about the parker stock issues ? mine has an OEM recoil pad that based on some comments is useless and/ or some cheek piece issue I should be aware of. Can I get more detail on how the stock is not right for the rifle and what kind of hardship is causes.
Reloading ammo is not my thing but considering the cost it may become a future hobby of mine. All that's available in my area is the factory Hornady 500 gr DGS or DGX and even that's limited in supply.
For flinching I always keep it aimed then pull the trigger so slow that I don't even know when the gun goes off and the surprise prevents flinching my accuracy. I do this with all rifles and even my bow release . Seems to work well for me when target shooting and when hunting the adrenalin rush keeps my mind off recoil altogether. I'm sure its the same for everyone though.
If the weather and mail is on time will shoot this weekend with ambulance on stand-by. LOL !
Thanks again you guys are a great help . With out asking I would have put the scope on first thing and may-be blacked my eye while trying to bench shoot.
I am not familiar with the stock issues previously mentioned, and as far as a scope, if you really want one on the rifle don't skimp on quality. Buy a nice scope with plenty of eye relief, don't let cost be an issue.. That being said, I completely agree with some of the earlier statements of not putting a scope on the rifle at all. My 458 win that I am having built, I am using the mossberg tactical shotgun sights.
That's right a ghost ring rear sight, anxious to see how it works.
Rob, I assume you are in Canada?
Originally Posted by Rob 458
I recently acquired a new Ruger Model 77 .458 Lott and fired it for the first time this weekend. I had a little trouble getting the scope on paper, so I ended up firing a half box before I was done (Hornady DGS). I use a Lead Sled, and I highly recommend that as it really does make a big difference. I too was a bit apprehensive before the first shot, but after touching it off (your shooting technique sounds perfect), it wasn't anything I couldn't handle. I do have a scope on mine (Leupold), but I've got the best of both worlds as I mounted it in Warne Quick Detach bases and rings, so I will be able to take it off and use the iron sights if the Cape Buffalo needs a follow up in the thick stuff.
Hi, everyone buys their first big bore sometime and most of us had the same questions / concerns you have. My recommendations are as follows:
1. Take you rifle to a big bore gunsmith and make sure it's bedded properly with some room at the tang to prevent splitting as well as have him make sure it's cross bolted properly. Do not shoot it before you do this.
2. Buy a lead sled and a Limbsaver slip on recoil pad. This will save your shoulder off of the bench and prevent you from developing a flinch from shooting from the bench.
3. Only shoot from the bench for load development (if you are a handloader) and initial sight in. Then shoot off of sticks or offhand and start with iron sights! Have some fun, blow up some water jugs at 25 yards and get familiar with the rifle. Practice dry firing it at home.
Best of luck with your new rifle and welcome to the big bore club!
Recoil is Brutal...My advice would be to shoot off of a standing rest NOT a bench I have a Nikon dangerous game scope w Warne detachable rings on my Ruger 77 Safari and it seems to be holding up but I have not shot extensively w scope . I usually shoot offhand w the express sights when I shoot. I also added a mercury recoil reducer in the stock and a kick eez pad to help tame the rifle. I learned the hard way to start slow and not to shoot half a box or a box in one session. Shooting big bores is a learned skill. Hope this helps
My 458 Lott load is a 500 grain bullet at 2220 FPS. The rifle is an MRC action in a McMillan Supergrade stock with a proper LOP for me.
Recoil is very reasonable if you shoot big bores. I do not use a lead sled and have no trouble shooting it on the bench. It is not something I would do 25 times in a row, but it is also not that bad.
Scope it with good rings and bases. I ruined a set of Leupold and switched to Talley.
Sight it in at 100 yards. you will be slightly high at 50, 2 1/2 inches low at 150, and less than 7 inches low at 200. I would not hesitiate to shoot a kudu, zebra, etc at 200 yards with a Lott.
In an attempt to clarify my comments regarding the Parker Hale stock.
My comments were based on my very limted experience with a Parker Hale rifle owned by a freind chambered in .375,
I believe (from memory) that it is the Paker Hale Safari Delux 1200.
It has an unusually high monty-carlo styled cheek-piece, not unlike an exagerated Weatherby stock.
The amount of drop at heel is excessive, and even in .375 that rifle is unusually unpleasant to shoot.
Both my buddy (who owns the rifle) and I are well versed and exposed to thousands of rounds from 40 cal + rifles and yet neither of us find that .375 pleasant enough to shoot regularily. He has long since retired it from use, hence my memory of the model being vauge.
I do not know that yours is the same model, but I would hate seeing you put off what is an extremely effecient cartridge which in a suitably configured stock is more than managable; as a result of a poorly designed stock.
Hence my comments.
Please remember that in any .40 cal + the better fitting of the stock goes a long way to shooter comfort in mitigating felt recoil.
I hope this has helped in some way,
Just to add to the comments made by Paul and Mike (100% agree) with regards to a stock that is nice and straight with minimum drop at the heel will allow you to mount a scope nice and low to the action. This is important as if you have to raise your head from the stock to see through the scope, this may add to the felt recoil and also give you a nasty smack to the cheek.
Although I have read good things about Telly mounts I personally would use EAW or Recknagle Qd mounts. These will absolutely return to zero when removed and re-attached. I am using EAW mounts on my 416 and have found them excellent.