This is a discussion on New rifle within the .375 & Up forums, part of the Firearms & Ammunition category; Thanks to a tip from Jriely, i now own a like new (not one single blemish) Win mod 70 .375 ...
03-27-2011, 07:44 AM #1
Thanks to a tip from Jriely, i now own a like new (not one single blemish) Win mod 70 .375 H&H. I have decided to top it with a 1.75 x 6 or 2 x 8 power scope.
The only thing left is the bullets. With advise from Jim i have been looking into some reloading equipment. The only problem so far is i will have to reload 200 hundred rounds to break even with similar factory ammo. (300 grain part.) I realy had not planned on shooting it that much. I was planning on just shooting it a couple of times at the end of each range session.
If you load .375 to minum payload, how much is the recoil reduced?I have walked in the tracks of the elephant, heard the lion roar and met the buffalo on his terms. I shall never be the same.
03-27-2011, 08:19 AM #2
There is math for those who can figure it out, to determine recoil but actual felt recoil is somewhat subjective and varies from shooter to shooter. Stock design has much to do with it as does shooting position. Offhand and sitting offer less felt recoil than bench or prone. I fired my .375 from prone at an impala once and dont intend to do it again. Its the only time I ever felt the recoil of that rifle while shooting at game.
03-27-2011, 03:50 PM #3
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Stoppelman, was your arm in a sling to allow our collar bone to knit?
03-27-2011, 04:06 PM #4
Well no.. but it definitely taught me to not do it again!
03-27-2011, 04:40 PM #5
When I initially started shooting mine I used a lead sled. But being on the shorter side and the way that device sits the rifle kind of high above the bench, I wasn't "shouldering" the rifle very well. On top of that, there are others with much more experience than me who do not recommend using them as it apparently puts undue stress on the stock. So, I started shooting standing up, completely offhand. I would suggest doing this first, but perhaps using shooting sticks.
What I found out pretty quickly was that while the recoil of the rifle is not something to ignore, it is not that bad. In many ways I'd rather shoot my heavy M70 .375 than my lightweight .300 Win Mag. The .300 Win no doubt has less recoil energy overall, but it is a much sharper recoil versus the .375 being more of a stiff shove.
Eventually I progressed to shooting using my old Benchmaster mechanical rest. It's for all intents and purposes like the lead sled without the lead. When I moved up to 300gr full power loads it did get my attention. So Santa Claus brought me a cheap little strap on recoil pad for my shoulder. These can be had for like $15-$20. Don't know for sure, but I believe the pad is made of memory foam like they make Tempurpedic mattresses out of and is only like 1/8" - 3/16" thick. Between that and the Pachmayr Decelerator that came on the rifle, I really don't notice the recoil. Last time out, I shot 25 rounds, all 300gr full power loads.
Concerning your scope choice, I would love to have something in the 2-8 power range but couldn't find it. The spacing on the scope bases on the M70 is quite far apart. This means you either need a longer scope so that the eyepiece and bell have enough tube between them, or you need a scope with a 20mm objective. Or perhaps there are different bases that will allow the rings to be spaced not so far apart. Not sure what the best plan there is, just wanted to give you a heads up on that.
EDIT: One other thing concerning the bases. Unless your M70 was manufactured at a different time than mine, you'll notice the spacing of the base screws on the rear is narrower than on the front. This means of course you can't just put any rear base for a M70 on, you'll need one specifically for these long action rifles.
03-27-2011, 05:52 PM #6
Congrats on the purchase of a fine rig, which the M 70 certainly is.
It will last you a lifetime, and in .375 prove to be an extremely effective and versatile chambering for all sorts of hunting scenarios.
With regards to reloading, I don't know what you guys are paying for .375 ammo over there, but premuim hunting loads with the very best bullets cost in excess of $200 per box here in Aus, (Fed Premiums), so it wont take as long for your handloads to catch-up to store boughts as you think, especially if your plinking or familiarising yourself with a new gun.
200 rounds may sound a lot now but believe me it's not really.
In a casual session down the range (which I do 3 or 4 times per year) I'll fire 30-40 before I even realise, and each season fire another 50 - 60 in the field.
I have 2 .375's, and each takes about 100 - 150 rounds each year, between sighting/testing and field hunting, and in factory ammo that adds up to quite an expense !
With regards to the recoil, you've received some very good advice from all of the above.
1) Try to get the very best recoil pad fitted if you are able to.
2) Wear one of the may strap on recoil shoulder pads available.
3) Wear ear plugs AND muffs when plinking (muzzle blast contributes substantially to felt recoil).
4) Take a firm grip (not strangulation) with both hands and nestle properly into the stock. The greater surface area in contact with the gun the more points of absorbtion.The Winchester stock is designed to come back more so than up, but still be conscious of proper stock holding, wrap your thumb around the grip rather than along it or it may belt you in the nose !
5) Until your reasonable comfortable with it, shoot the gun from the standing position over a bi-pod, or tri-pod(Bog-Pod make an excellent tri-pod which I use for both practice and field hunting) and let your upper torso flex and roll with the recoil and the gun, don't fight it. Dont bench shoot the gun until you know what your up for.
6) Mild loads with smaller slugs (235's) are FAR more comfortable on the shoulder and a better route for familiarisation than starting with full power hunting loads with 300gners. Work up to the bigger loads gradually.
6) If your going to scope it up ensure you have plenty of eye relief (3 " +) until your accustomed to it, or better still fire the first few boxes with the open sights. I have 1-4 VX11's Lupies on both my .375's and find that although they are a bit short in the tube to properly bridge the action (meaning they have to be clasped by the front ring over the objective lens which will eventually cause a failed scope)I have found both scopes to be extremely effective and both have withstood several hundreds of rounds, and more, in each rifle.
After a hundred or so rounds with proper familiarisation techniques you'll find the .375 recoil to be, certainly there, but not as big a deal as you may think now and the more you fire it the less of an issue it will be.
I hope to have been some help, along with the others, good luck shooting your new rig and keep us up to date with how your going with it.
03-27-2011, 07:29 PM #7
Those are some pretty rough prices for ammo Paul. Last I looked a box of 20 rounds from Remington in 300gr A-Frames for the .375 was like $85.
I did an estimate on my reloading that came in about $1.75 per round of 300gr A-Frames which assumes 4 shots from a single piece of brass. Go to a Nosler Partition or TSX and that drops by about 20 cents. This drops the price of reloading to roughly 1/2 the cost of factory loaded ammo which is pretty close to what I see for the other calibers I load for.
03-27-2011, 08:46 PM #8
Your not kidding Phil.
Currently, over here, a box of Federal Premiums loaded with Barnes T.S.X's (300gn) are about $230 (packet of 20) !
I have been using these to supply to our clients who do not travel with their own firearms as they are reliable and extremely effective on buffalo, but the price has become prohibitive.
I still have one case (200) of these to get through and will then turn to reloading the thousand or more cases I have accumulated.
Good quality premium component bullets start at about $65/50 over here but the savings are still obvious.
The T.S.X's (300gn) are wonderful bullets in the .375 !
03-28-2011, 03:55 AM #9
I think i will get the reloading stuff and work my way up. I think ill start with the 235 grain bullets. This will be good medicine for a nice fat hog im thinking.
Paul, can your clients who are using the camp guns bring there on ammo? It would be a cheap way for them to resupply you.
Phil, you need to clean out your inbox friend. check out this link on a 2x8 scope.I have walked in the tracks of the elephant, heard the lion roar and met the buffalo on his terms. I shall never be the same.
03-28-2011, 06:36 AM #10
Inbox cleaned out a bit. I'll have to check out that scope to see if it'll fit. Again that spacing between the eyepiece and bell is the issue. Perhaps this is worsened by my ring choice, I went with the Warne QD rings.
03-28-2011, 08:33 AM #11
As I headed out the door this morning, I could not resist re-measuring the distance between the front edge of the front ring to the back edge of the back ring. Using my micrometer it measured 5.438 inches. So using that and not wanting to have the bell or power adjustment ring bumped up against the scope rings, I rounded up to 5.6 inches to ensure some "cushion." This is pretty long and as I shopped scopes in that 1.75/2 - something power range, I found that the tubes on most of the scopes I looked at weren't long enough.
Now the Warne rings are kind of wide in comparison to others. So a different ring set may help in this issue, or a base that offsets the rings from being centered over the bases.
But I like the design of the Warne rings. They use 4 screws, two above and two below and this makes I think for a strong and evenly distributed grip of the scope. Both sides of the rings kind of float and essentially self center themselves to the base as you screw them closed. I've also tested out the quick detach function and found that the shots return to center as promised after detaching and re-attaching the scope.
03-28-2011, 11:18 PM #12
Thunderhead, in answer to your question, yes clients can bring ammo in with them but this would require the same Restricted goods permit as per applying for a firearms entry/use permit which is what some people wish to avoid(although it is not such a great hassle).
Also, when travelling without any restricted goods, process times through Customs are greatly reduced and this is the main advantage (apart from the additional weight) of travelling without a firearm or ammo.
Fortunately many of our clients leave behind any surplus ammo in many different calibers which we are then able to pass onto other hunters who may find themselves short, at times.
Regarding your scope choice, I would seriously reccommend you take your rifle into your gunstore and compare various scope models and how the fit the bridging distance between the positioning of the bases.
Try get a scope model that offers 3" or more eye relief as this will allow you to concentrate on your shooting rather than than scope.
03-29-2011, 01:58 AM #13
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03-29-2011, 09:45 PM #14
BTW, I'm guessing both of your scopes would fit on my M70 just fine. Any of the 20mm scopes should work as there is no bell at the front of the scope. The 3-9x40 Zeiss I have on it now has roughly 3/4" of "extra" tube to work with.
03-29-2011, 11:42 PM #15
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The CZ has a double square bridge that is dove-tailed from the factory.It does'nt need to be drilled and tapped for scope bases like a round bridge.You just clamp your rings straight on.Warne makes QD rings specially for the CZ 550 magnum and mine measure 5.255 inch outside to outside of the rings with my 4-12x40 mounted.I am not familiar with M70,does it come drilled and tapped for scope bases?
Doc.One does not hunt in order to kill; on the contrary, one kills in order to have hunted.
03-30-2011, 02:31 AM #16
Docman and Phil.
The Mod 70 does not have integral dove-tails, nor double square bridge action.
It is drilled and tapped for bases which the scope mounts are then clamped to.
The positioning of the bases is dictated by the screw holes in the action and there is a little play in the positioning of the mounts on the bases, but not much.
The biggest problem is the tube length of most suitable scopes.
Most 1-4's, 1&1/2 - 5's etc barely bridge the distance of the magnum action without needing to be clamped across the top of the objective lens (when trying to acheive full feild of view and proper eye relief), which commonly causes, eventual, scope failure.
Phil, the Warnes are good mounts no doubt but for me they unneccessarily raise the scope higher than what is needed.
I have Loupold low detachables on one of my .375's and they always return to zero and mount the scope nice and low to the gun, but the forward ring is clasped across the top of the objective lens on a Loupy 1 - 4x.
03-30-2011, 06:42 AM #17
Ah thanks for the explanation. That's a nice feature on the CZ.
The Warne rings I have actually I think work pretty well with the 3-9x40 as far as height goes. At 3x, I actually see the front sight in the bottom of the sight picture. The rear sight is actually just slightly above the bottom of the bell. If I went lower I'm not sure that my sight picture wouldn't be filled with either front and/or rear iron sights. But a 20mm objective scope may be a different story.