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Anyone using a 45/70 for African hunting - I have a marlin Guide Gun which I am in the process of selling so I can pick up one of the new Marlin 45/70 SBL (ghost ring sight, picatinny rail, 6 round capacity and large lever loop - stainless laminate, should be an awesome pig gun.
SO who else is into leverguns and what have you got?
Cheers:)
HI,
I have always had a bolt action , but i must say i would love to have a lever action rifle it looks nice like cowboy style, but i have not seen many here in SA to buy :-(
lever action yes, but no 45/70 and not for Africa.
My first choice lever action still ist the Browning BLR.
I use one on drives and searches for wounded wildboars. better: my brother uses this gun now, but for the same purpose. It is chambered for the .308Win, unfourtunately, since this is forbidden here in France, where I live now. When I bought it, I wanted .358Win and could not get one, later, I would have liked to change it to .338-08, the now tamed old wildcat, tamed by Federal and named .338Federal. But, the rifle shots good as it is and so I did not want to waste a good barrel and took it as is.
I changed the factory sight to one from Raetz and also took a chance to set a scope on it, but it does not fit realy with scope. I shot good with the open sights with it.
The advantage of that rifle is the hammer, with that it can be carried loaded, but uncocked. It is way stronger than any other lever action and features a real bolt, driven by the lever action and thus, the short .308Win case is easy handeled and I can be as fast with it as with any selfloader.
Additional, it has a real magazine and can handle all type of bullets.
For me, that is the far better lever action.
My model is not that new, made in Japan and done quite well.
Having used and observed the use of the 45-70 with some pretty warm handloads on both deer and elk, I am of the opinnion it is a very good short range deer rifle, but I much prefer the 308 or 30-06 even for deer..It is a poor elk rifle under any conditions IMO, and I would not hunt DG or take one to Africa..
This is solely my opinnion as you asked the question and I am sure some will take me on based on my answer, and that is certainly their perorgative, but my opine on this subject will remain firm...
The BLRs are nice rifles. I think you would also be surprised by the quality of the marlins, mine has been accurate and very dependable. It is also capable of handling stout handloads with no issue.
As for DG, probably not, there are better choices out there. That said, any of the thin skinned (non CXP3 class game) the 45/70 would do fine. There are quite a few blokes over here who use them with heavy pills on Water Buffalo.
Inveribly when anyone opposes the use of the 45-70 cartridge for dangerous game in Africa, he is usually accused of being opposed to the use of lever action rifles. This is not the case. Doug Turnbull has a lever action that is chambered for his own cartridge, that makes it a CAPABLE choice for Buffalo in open bush, and would be the nuts for follow-up on Leopard. The cartridge is the 500 Turnbull, and will be a real eye opener to any one who tries it.
In Jan. of this year Doug was down at Monty Kalogeras's Safari Shooting School,in Texas along with Kevin DOCTARI Robertson. The DRSS was haveing one of our anual get togethers at the 4K ranch about 20 miles away. Monty invited us over for the test runs on the new cartridge/rifle, and with Doctari running it through it's paces. Robertson was impressed to say the least, and declared the rifle/cartridge Africa ready. The only reccomendation was to limit the cartridges in the tube magazine to One in the chamber, and four in the mag, because more rounds in the mag, caused the rifle to go from extremely muzzel heavy, to very muzzle light changing the way the rifle handled adversly. The cartridge it's self is fine!
The 45-70 Gov is simply not up to the legal ballistics to be legal for dangerous game bigger that Leopard in most places, and bigger than lion in a few, but no place for Buffalo or Elephant. The 500 Turnbull, according to Doctari, just sqeeeks by! :confused:
I love the old 45-70 Gov, and used for what it was designed for it was perfect, killing Indians, and after the Indian wars, found it's place in the North American hunting fields, where it did a good job if used at the ranges it was best suited for, in the woods of America. I have several rifles chambered for the old war horse, and love to hunt with them, but I know what to hunt with them as well. ;),
Kevin has an article in the most recent issue of Sports Afield on the .475Turnbull cartridge in the Turnbull customized lever guns for those of you who are interested in seeing what he had to say.
Thanks Kelly, the round they were testing at Monty's place WAS the 475Turnbull, not the 500. Guess I'm getting too old to post with only memory as reference! :oQuote:
Originally Posted by Skyline
The thing was impressive. I didn't shoot it, but some of the DRSS guys did, and though, according to the guys who shot it, the rifle didn't handle like a double rifle, but the cartridge was well designed for the room that is available in the Lever rifle. That rifle would make one fine brown bear rifle. I would love to have a nice S/S double rifle chambered for that cartridge! ;)
I bought a Remington SPR double rifle in 45-70. It was originally intended to be my plaything and a "poor man's double" but it has turned into a pretty fine little drive rifle especially for boar hunting here in Germany. A good many of my expat American buddies hunt the 45-70 in thick country and on game drives. We've got Elk sized Hirsch and boar the size of a compact car on some reveres. Even though it isn't the standard, the game don't seem to notice. I've seen many a big boar dropped within a few paces of impact with a good 45-70 solid.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Macs B
Macs B if you use a solid in that rifle make sure it is a Woodliegh, a GIS Custom, Or North Fork Mono-metal solid. Do NOT use a regular mono-metal solid in that rifle.:eek: Check out the thread softs or solids on this website for the explanation!
Dugaboy1 has you covered on the solids.
So how is the Rem.SPR?
Dugaboy1,Quote:
Originally Posted by DUGABOY1
No worries on the solids there. Solid ammo has been an experiment of mine with a 30-06 bolt gun on the reh deer. I've been feeding some standard Hornady loads thru the SPR with pretty good results. You won't drive tacks with a 45-70 even on a good day, but it has a visible effect on our local boars. My farmer buddies particularly like the effects when the pigs are eating the maize sprouts.
"Dugaboy1 has you covered on the solids.,So how is the Rem.SPR?"
Skyline,
You know I bought these things a while back and really didn't think to much of them. They were very hard to regulate and next to impossible to zero...and then... I got a hold of a copy of the owner's manual in English. I never realize that when you regulate these guns to a load you are only adjusting one barrel, bringing it to point of impact with the other. Incidentally it's the right barrel you adjust to the zeroed left barrel. Something that would have been nice to know, before a few hundred rounds at the range. After breaking the code on how the thing works, it has turned into a really nice rifle. Fit and finish is equal to most other Remington or Baikal guns. The triggers are pure shotgun though, a lot of travel and heavy. I cleaned up the 30-06 triggers with a little home gun smithing but my local gun smith claims he can make the 45-70 silky. I think I'll let him give it a try this winter. I've really been very happy with them. I carry the 30-06 when I guide and the 45-70 is great pig medicine.
Macs
Macs.......thanks for the info. I have been thinking about getting one in the .45-70 Good bear gun for close range when I am tracking wounded bruins. This is a bad year for that, 3/4 of the hunters have wounded instead of dumping them on the spot.
I just got in from a long track........the bear is in the salt,
but was gut shot and required a couple more to end it.:)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skyline
Kelly, what seems to be the main problem? Is it bad placement, or failier to slap him again as soon as possible?
One of our guys lost a bear on the Nipogon River South of Gerldon, Ont. He hit it with a 180 gr bullet from a 30-06 at about 20 yds. The bear went right down, but instead of hitting him again, he proceded to get up to go to the bear. tripped and fell while getting up, and broke his arm in two places. When he got up the bear was gone. We trailed the bear for about a mile with only a few drops of blood, ending at about 40 yds. The woods were thick, and everything covered with very green, wet moss. Then lost all sign of him.
I think he hit the bear to low, and possably hit one front leg, and went through the brisket, without getting into the chest. We found one small piece of bone where the bear first fell, that looked to be a piece of the long leg bone, but could have been a piece of rib as well. Anyway we lost the bear.:(
We gave up on the bear to get my friend to the doctors in Gerldon, where they put his arm in a temp cast till he could get back home in the USA. The arm was bad, and required surgery and a couple of pins.
While we are talking bears, the first "big time" hunting trip I made was a drop off trip in Alaska. The year was 1997 and it was my first trip to Alaska. I made the trip with a friend of mine from Louisiana. No guide was present and we hunted north of the Tazlina Glacier. The second day of the hunt my buddy shot a bear and flattened him. I watched through my rifle scope. After I yelled good shoot the bear disappeared. We looked for hours in alders that were so thick we could not see each other 20 feet apart. Never found blood or the bear.
Two days later I shot mine with a 300 win mag Ruger No. 1. Shot him 4 times even though he dropped in his tracks on the first shot. That No 1 was cycling like a Ma Deuce. More work for the taxidermist but there was no tracking involved.
The 45-70 is a great cartridge for a lot of things, that lever action would be a pig killing machine.
Skyline,Quote:
Originally Posted by Skyline
I would recommend the SPR as a backup or tracker's rifle. No worries. If you are like me you can be a little hard on a rifle, and they are built to take the abuse. Having those two quick shots has made the difference more than once.
Do you use dogs at all? I've been involved with training my own blood tracking hounds for several years now. It originally was a way to get invited to more hunts; here in Germany a good hunter is usually welcome, but a good hunter with a good dog is always welcome. I have become a full blown convert. I get a kick out of following my Bavarian Mountain Bloodhound through the thick to find dead game.
Congratulations on the bear, that's a satisfying feeling to finish a long track at a piled up game animal.
I've hunted whitetail, black bear, and moose with the .45-70 and it has worked well. But my wifes' cousin works the fishing boats out of Kenai, Alaska and he is trying to get us a lodge to hunt blacktail deer on Kodiak Island this fall. If he succeeds i think i will carry my .30-06. I would feel better in Brown Bear country with a .45-70 but it does not have the reach for blacktail deer which are commonly shot at 200-300 yards.
Although this may be and probably is a rare instance, a fellow from Florida ( Vince Lupo ) has taken the big six (?), Elephant, Rhino, Lion, Buffalo, Hippo and Leopard with a 45-70 lever action Marlin using Garrett dangerous game (540 grain solids)
Interesting discussion. Thought I might just weigh in with my personal experience. I own a 1895 Marlin in .45-70. The rifle has been refined and customized for me by Jim Brockman (Brockman's Rifles) in Gooding, Idaho, and set up to shoot Randy Garrett's 420 gr. & 540 gr. Hammerhead cartridges. This rifle hits like the "Hammer of Thor". I hunted with it in South Africa last year with impressive results. During my hunts I took a Zebra, Gemsbok, and Blue Wildebeest with it. Those animals were decisively put down. Ranges were in the 125 to 175 yard area. All bullets passed clear through all three animals and the last time we saw the bullets they were heading for Zimbabwe. The "whack" when that 540 gr. bullet hits an animal is pretty amazing. My PH was also quite impressed with the guns knockdown ability, and also the speed that I could whick off a second "aimed" shot if necessary. He also like the short barrel and overall lenght of the rifle for brush work. I understand that some think that the .45-70 is a wee bit anemic for DG, but I would have zero hesitation with elephant, buff, of rhino with this gun and the right bullets. My Marlin is an extremely hard hitter, and holds 1 to 1-1/2 inches at 100 yards. What it is not, is a 200 plus yard "reach out and touch" gun. A properly set up .45-70 lever gun shooting the correct loads will operate smoothly, and decisively put down anything walking this earth, AND in most cases give the experienced shooter quicker, more acurrate follow-up shots. Of course, you have to do your part also. I believe I can match the speed of two "aimed" shots out of most double rifles, and if it come to four shots, my lever gun will leave everything else in the dirt. This ain't your grandpa's lever action. Also plan on spending about $2500+ to have a glass smooth operating lever gun thumpers, but it's worth every cent! Just my opinion. Thanks for the opportunity to put in my two cents. Great discussion gang!
Each to his own, however I would never advise a hunter to hunt Elephant or Buff with a 45-70 no matter what pixie dust loads are used.
First of all it is illegal to hunt DG with a 45-70 in African countries that have a minimum energy requirement of 4000 ft/lbs. They are used, just not legally and the requirement is there for good reason.
This discussion is one of the favorites on several sites and usually nobody changes their minds.
Nothing against a 45-70, it is a fine cartridge in it own rite and the lever guns are interesting.