416Rigby vs 458win
This is a discussion on 416Rigby vs 458win within the .375 & Up forums, part of the Firearms & Ammunition category; Dear frienss, its been time since I don not mess around this forum. I need your help, I want to ...
11-26-2010, 02:32 AM #1
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416Rigby vs 458win
its been time since I don not mess around this forum.
I need your help, I want to buy a new rifle a need a cliber for dangeroud game in Africa.
I have been 3 times hunting in Zimbabwe already and I have shooted 4 buffalos with my 375HH, but I have realised that most of the times 375HH is not enough for dangerous game.
So I am thinking about what caliber I should buy. I am thiking about two different posibilities. 416Rigby and 458win.
What caliber would you recomend me to buy for dangerous game? what caliber is more confortable to shoot with? Bear in mind this rifle will travel with my 338win.
Thank you for your help.
11-26-2010, 02:42 AM #2
.458 Winchester Magnum is a fine choice for dangerous game hunting in Africa, has had been a tried & tested caliber since 1956.
The cartridge case is based on the .375 H&H case shortened to 2.5 in (64 mm), and "blown out" (case opening enlarged) to accept a bullet of .458 in (11.6 mm) diameter. The cartridge headspaces on the belt. The developers of the .458 Winchester Magnum sought to duplicate the ballistics of the 450 and .470 Nitro Express in a cartridge that would fit in a standard bolt-action rifle. With good handloads one can expect approximately 2,170 ft/s (660 m/s) using 500-grain (32 g) bullets (achieved using a barrel 24 in (610 mm) in length). Though somewhat overpowered for North American game like deer and elk, the .458 is most useful for African game like Cape buffalo and lions. The 458 Winchester Magnum is the largest of a family of "short magnums" that include the .338 Winchester Magnum, .264 Winchester Magnum and later the .300 Winchester Magnum.
Winchester currently offers ammunition in the traditional 510 gr (33 g) Soft Point and the new 500 gr (32 g) Nosler Partition and Nosler Solid. The Winchester 500 gr (32 g) loading has a muzzle velocity of 2,240 ft/s (680 m/s) and muzzle energy of 5,570 foot-pounds force (7,550 J). Hornady offers what they call a "heavy magnum" loading that features a 500 gr (32 g) bullet with a velocity of approx 2,260 ft/s (690 m/s). They use a special double-based cooler burning propellant ("powder") not available to the public for handloading. This innovative loading allows the .458 Winchester Magnum to attain 5,670 foot-pounds force (7,690 J) of muzzle energy. Federal Cartridge is now loading a 500-grain (32 g) Barnes X bullet with a sectional density and ballistic coefficient that allows it to maintain approximately 2,000 foot-pounds force (2,700 J) of energy at 500 yards (460 m) and a flatter trajectory that has never been attained with this cartridge and bullet weight. Numerous companies offer rifles in this caliber, including the Winchester Model 70.
The rounds for the .458 Win mag are more expensive than cartridges like the popular .30-06, making handloading a worthwhile effort. Though more expensive than deer hunting ammunition, the .458 Winchester Magnum is significantly less expensive than its competitors. For many decades the .458 has been the most popular rifle cartridge of professional hunters who pursue heavy dangerous game in Africa because of its performance, price, and availability. When British ammunition companies, including Kynoch, began closing in the 1960s, Winchester and the .458 Winchester Magnum filled the gap left behind.
The recoil of the factory loads is about 70 foot pounds. Handloads can be made that will make this cartridge more comfortable to shoot.
The .416 Rigby or 10.6x74mm was designed in 1911 by John Rigby & Company of London, England as a dangerous game cartridge and is the first one to use a bullet with a diameter of .416". The rifles, as built by John Rigby & Co., were initially made up on Original Magnum Mauser actions although in later years, some were made on standard length actions, a perfect example being the rifle used by legendary professional hunter Harry Selby. Other famous users of the cartridge were Commander David Enderby Blunt, John Taylor and Jack O'Connor.
The cartridge case is one of the largest ever designed for a bolt action rifle and the huge case capacity allowed for good performance without creating excessive chamber pressure. The cartridge was originally loaded with Cordite, a powder that resembles long spaghetti strands that burns very hot and is sensitive to changes in ambient temperature. Like many cartridges designed by the British in this era, most of its intended use would have been in the hot climates of Africa and India. Large increases in chamber pressure often resulted under such conditions, sometimes making it difficult to extract fired cartridges, something that would be virtually impossible with the .416 Rigby.
Most .416 Rigby factory-loaded ammunition propels a 400 grain bullet in the neighborhood of 2,300 ft/s (700 m/s). Additionally, it doesn't have the tremendous recoil of other large cartridges such as the .460 Weatherby Magnum. Recently-offered lighter-weight bullets, affordable reloading brass, and reasonably priced American and imported rifles have made this caliber increasingly popular for hunting large game in the United States.
Until recently, the use of .416 cartridges was mostly confined to Africa, where they were used primarily on dangerous or "thick-skinned" large game such as rhino, elephant and Cape buffalo.
The description stated above is about the pros & cons of both the rifles, you have be the best judge.
Happy Purchasing one of these immaculate calibers.......
MonishITS NOT THE RIFLE BUT THE MAN BEHIND THE RIFLE
11-26-2010, 04:45 AM #3
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Monish has provided excellent detail on both cartridges. I can only add that I am very pleased with the accuracy and consistencey of my .416 Rigby. With handloads using Reliant Reloader 22 powder and Barnes bullets (TSX and solids), velocity variance is quite low (less than 18 feet per second) and groups are one inch at 100 yards. The rifle is a Ruger 77RSM.
PS: Mi hija menor está estudiando por un año en España. Ella está viviendo en Sevilla y tener un tiempo maravilloso de aprendizaje acerca de su hermoso país
11-26-2010, 08:27 PM #4
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just wrote a long analysis of the two then my computer crapped. Shorter version...go with the .416, you will never be undergunned for anything walking or even running your way. the only benefit of the .458 is cheaper and more available ammo which is more important to ph's and game departments in country, not hunters.
11-27-2010, 09:43 PM #5
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Simple, get both ........
11-28-2010, 02:06 AM #6
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I own a .416 Rigby but have yet to use it on game. I considered the .416 Rigby and the .458 Lott which I believe are more comparable.Time spent in Reconnaisance is never wasted.
11-28-2010, 08:42 AM #7
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There is no replacement for displacement
If you are going to make the jump from a .375 then go for the 458 Lott or Akley. You can load down to 450 or 400 grn bullets if you want to. The 416 is a step up from the375 no doubt about it. But like the .375 its not quite a big bore and it sounds to me like you want something that will really make an impression on ur next buff. Like you I have shot most of my buff with the .375 but there is a heck of a big diffrence when you thump one with a .458. It's just my opinion, I have nothing bad to say about the 416 and lots of guys love them. Having said all that the .375 is still my favourite and I wouldnt go to Africa without one.
11-29-2010, 02:31 AM #8
I simply love the .416 Rigby made by Ruger. It comes to personal preference but to me the .416 is a great calibre for big game with a little tradition to it...
Both will work just fine though!
11-29-2010, 03:31 AM #9
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09-27-2011, 04:37 PM #10
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458 wm vs 416 Rigby
Just received my 416 Rigby and after looking at the cases....jeez they look familiar.........that Rigby case is the parent to the 378 wby case...the 416wby and Rigby have virtually the same case capacity....meaning you can reload 416 brass over and over since 2400fps is only an introduction to what can be achieved here.........so if you are planning to load your own....416....if not 458 Lott.........both will give you all the flexibility you can hope for........but dang that 416 Rigby ammo is $$$$$$$$...but thank god Hornady is offering it now......hope they start loading the 500 Jeffery next....just my 2c
09-27-2011, 05:12 PM #11
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Guess I am on the opposing side here, I have owned both. A CZ 550 in 416 Rigby that was incredibly accurate, with factory loads (that ones for you Scott) they were Federal 400 grn. The other 3 458's were not as accurate, but definately accurate enough, they were 500 grn bullets and recoil was just a little more stout that the 416. The Ruger 77 in 458 was the absolute best, and one I plan on buying again. I have stated this in previous post's that ammo availability would be one of my deciding factors. The 458 has a great reputation and it will stop a deuce and a half dead in it's tracks, along with big animals with blood in their veins. If I were paying for a Buff hunt and my gun made it but the ammo didn't, i would like to know that I could get some locally.....
09-27-2011, 05:17 PM #12
I would go with 416 rigby. Once you finish in Africa you can load lighter projectiles and use it on your local hunts.
09-28-2011, 06:33 AM #13
Thanks Monish for the details about the calibers. Both are very good and 458 Lott too. The only thing I noticed in the bush is that people don't realy like the recoil when they are firing those big bores ....
The 404 jeffery is a bite more confortable.....
It is only what I noticed....
09-28-2011, 10:08 AM #14
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An excellent point, Christophe, a hunter should be confortable with the caliber he is shooting, otherwise, flinching is inevitable, and the result is a poor shot.
Not a good option when hunting DG.
By Alcornoque in forum .375 & UpReplies: 3Last Post: 04-01-2012, 03:06 PM