.45-70 for Elephant

Originally Posted by trigger creep

I have been seeing a lot of Americans on the internet calling the .45-70 an "Elephant rifle". I hate it because IMO, the .45-70 can kill an Elephant but it is not necessarily an "Elephant rifle". However, if you dare attempt to debate them they often resort to name calling. I have even seen PH's tell them that the .45-70 is not an "elephant rifle", and they get told they are idiots. Now, my question is the .45-70 an "Elephant rifle"? What do you guys think?





Sorry for the grammar, I know I'm not the best kid in the world with grammar.

Vince Lupo is the African Quest Part One first to take the African Big Five or Six with the 45-70 lever-gun. Garrett Cartridges Inc.

Okay, very poetically written, and it may all be true (What is the difference between a fairy tale and a hunting story? A fairy tale begins: "Once upon a time..." and a hunting story: "You won't believe what happened..."). I still don't think 45-70 is an elephant caliber. There are a lot of tried and proven calibers out there to hunt African DG, and just because you CAN kill them with a marginal one does not mean you should. My 2 cents.

I'd forgotten about this thread altogether. How in the world did anyone even find this thread?

My opinion hasn't changed in the year and a half since I wrote this. Just because there is better bullets now doesn't mean that you can ethically hunt a Elephant with the 'ol .45-70. I just got in an arguement over whether the .405 Winchester and the .45-70 are Elephant guns (poster probably liked to use potato cannons on tanks too, after all, potatoes have improved over the years). Without all the time I've spent on multiple forums picking the brains of PH's I wouldn't even know myself...

At one time I thought the 45-70 was OK for dangerous game. After all how tough can a Buffalo or Elephant be? Right?
Well, after taking my first Buffalo (not with a 45-70) and watching my son take an Elephant (also not with a 45-70) I most definitely do NOT think the 45-70 is OK for dangerous game!
Right now I am re-barreling a left handed Ruger 77 into .458 Win Mag.

I think you might probably kill and elephant or a buffalo with a 45/70. Been done before
and I a sure it would work just fine . . . . most of the time

However, that would not be my concern

What would concern me is the time that it didn't

I am figuring that much black cow,that mad, moving that fast

Great Guacamole!

whose gonna clean up THAT mess!

Ewwww

I've never even hunted Africa and i laughed a little when i saw the title of this thread, you might be better off talking a .22 CB for elephant because there's a better chance he won't notice he's been shot

What a bunch of haters. The 45-70 has proven itself to be adequate for the biggest and baddest African game. You guys just can't handle the fact that a 150 year old AMERICAN cartridge can be so effective on your beloved elephants. You guys really need to get over your inferiority complex and stop hating on things just because they're American. If it wasn't for America you'd all be fucked right now anyway.

USA No 1,

Welcome to the forum. Pretty interesting you can tie politics in to a DG cartridge conversation.

I am American and very proud of that fact but it has nothing to do with my dislike of the 45-70.

It can, has, and will work in Africa. However there are many who have hunted large dangerous game that feel it is underpowered. And we even own 45-70s of our own.

It's case capacity is too small to propel a 500 grain bullet to the velocity many of us feel is minimum.

As I said it will work and I have seen where it has not. In one case a client shot a buffalo with a DGX and it did not have enough velocity to expand. After three days the buff was found and finished off. The next buff he shot was a quick kill.

There are many better choices out there some of them are even American rounds.

Take a breathe and have a nice day.

Originally Posted by Mike70560

USA No 1,

Welcome to the forum. Pretty interesting you can tie politics in to a DG cartridge conversation.

I am American and very proud of that fact but it has nothing to do with my dislike of the 45-70.

It can, has, and will work in Africa. However there are many who have hunted large dangerous game that feel it is underpowered. And we even own 45-70s of our own.

It's case capacity is too small to propel a 500 grain bullet to the velocity many of us feel is minimum.

As I said it will work and I have seen where it has not. In one case a client shot a buffalo with a DGX and it did not have enough velocity to expand. After three days the buff was found and finished off. The next buff he shot was a quick kill.

There are many better choices out there some of them are even American rounds.

Take a breathe and have a nice day.

very well put mike!!!!!!!!

Originally Posted by USA No.1

What a bunch of haters. The 45-70 has proven itself to be adequate for the biggest and baddest African game. You guys just can't handle the fact that a 150 year old AMERICAN cartridge can be so effective on your beloved elephants. You guys really need to get over your inferiority complex and stop hating on things just because they're American. If it wasn't for America you'd all be fucked right now anyway.

do i detect a bit of small man syndrome here.....? spouting off how we would be f---ed if it wasnt for america!!! well let me tell you a lot of people from a lot of countries died fighting alongside american troops in a lot of conflicts, so i suggest you wind your neck in.a definite attitude problem for sure. see you havent filled in your personal details... and i am from the uk and i have a 45-70 . so i suggest YOU go fuck yourself.

Originally Posted by spike.t

do i detect a bit of small man syndrome here.....? spouting off how we would be f---ed if it wasnt for america!!! well let me tell you a lot of people from a lot of countries died fighting alongside american troops in a lot of conflicts, so i suggest you wind your neck in.a definite attitude problem for sure. see you havent filled in your personal details... and i am from the uk and i have a 45-70 . so i suggest YOU go fuck yourself.

Spike, being that I am American as well as USA No.1 and I love the 45-70, I also realize that it has it's limitations....There is not a chance in hell that I would take a 45-70 after Cape Buffalo unless that's what the tracker threw at me in passing while we were being charged. Clearly ignorance prevailed, and attitude prevailed on this one. To all who would gladly take the trusted ole' 45-70 to shoot Ele or Buff, I'll be right behind you with a minimum of a 416 rigby. P.S. post the video if you can get him to F**k himself.

Originally Posted by 35bore

Spike, being that I am American as well as USA No.1 and I love the 45-70, I also realize that it has it's limitations....There is not a chance in hell that I would take a 45-70 after Cape Buffalo unless that's what the tracker threw at me in passing while we were being charged. Clearly ignorance prevailed, and attitude prevailed on this one. To all who would gladly take the trusted ole' 45-70 to shoot Ele or Buff, I'll be right behind you with a minimum of a 416 rigby. P.S. post the video if you can get him to F**k himself.

hi ,i must apologize for my language here , but that is the first and i hope only time i have seen that attitude displayed on this site. usa1 is the type of american that does the rest of you a disservice with the rest of the world. i hope you all realize i wasnt having a go at all americans there, just the ones with his attitude, which i cant stand . as for the video , i have a suspicion that he is slightly inadequate in that department and it would be impossible.

Originally Posted by spike.t

hi ,i must apologize for my language here , but that is the first and i hope only time i have seen that attitude displayed on this site. usa1 is the type of american that does the rest of you a disservice with the rest of the world. i hope you all realize i wasnt having a go at all americans there, just the ones with his attitude, which i cant stand . as for the video , i have a suspicion that he is slightly inadequate in that department and it would be impossible.

No need to apologize, I'm sure everyone knew. I just thought it was a comical response.

Originally Posted by 35bore

No need to apologize, I'm sure everyone knew. I just thought it was a comical response.

you should have seen the steam coming out of my ears !!

Originally Posted by spike.t

you should have seen the steam coming out of my ears !!

Ohh...was that the cloud on the western horizon?

Originally Posted by timbear

Ohh...was that the cloud on the western horizon?

possibly

Originally Posted by timbear

Ohh...was that the cloud on the western horizon?

This one? I was wondering why it was so localized.

Attachment 12223

Not to step on anyone's toes here but I will add another twist to this thread, I have heard people call 45-70's and 444 Marlins and even 50 cal inlines "elephant guns". Most of these people were old timers and were not even referring to the power aspect of the cartridge but were speaking in terms of the size of the hole in the end of the barrel. These guys shoot 7mms and 30 cal and never even thought about going to another state let alone another country to hunt, so to them anything over say .35 cal is in the realm of an "elephant gun", just another term for overkill. Now I'm not saying this is what was discussed on these other sites and yes I have seen a few, I even have a well know reloading manual that states in a strong action like a Ruger No 1 and a K98 Mauser the 45-70 can be loaded to close to 458 velocities but the key word is close and that is still relative because in whose opinion is 1700 fps close to 2100fps? On the other side of the coin, there are the same type of people who claim the 30-30 Win and 35 Rem and the 308 are anemic for deer and black bear, you need something that is capable of pushing a 200+ grn tip at over 3200 fps for those animals. Just something else to throw out here...

Simple--not a "elephant gun"--- will kill an elephant, but not a elephant gun!!!!

Hey now lets start a is a 375 winchester thread a good cape buffalo round

Ed

Originally Posted by 505ED

Simple--not a "elephant gun"--- will kill an elephant, but not a elephant gun!!!!

Hey now lets start a is a 375 winchester thread a good cape buffalo round

Ed

There are plenty accounts of the 45-70 taking elephants. It's been proven multiple times but you refuse to believe it. The truth is you guys suffer from little penis syndrome where you need the biggest baddest most expensive rifles to get the job done. Either you just can't accept the fact that a cheap american rifle can lay the smackdown on your beloved african game even though it's been proven over and over again or you're trying to justify your purchase of an expensive rifle that barely gets used. Either way you guys are in denial and need to get over it.