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caliber question

This is a discussion on caliber question within the .375 & Up forums, part of the HUNTING EQUIPMENT, FIREARMS & AMMUNITION category; Is a .585 caliber, 650 grain FMJ bullet @ 16-1700 fps enough to kill elephant,rhino,cape buffalo,hippo,etc? Im just looking for ...

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    blkpowder50 is offline AH Senior Member
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    Default caliber question

    Is a .585 caliber, 650 grain FMJ bullet @ 16-1700 fps enough to kill elephant,rhino,cape buffalo,hippo,etc?
    Im just looking for opinions from people thatve seen it firsthand or know otherwise how that load would fare.
    thanks for looking!

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    Red Leg's Avatar
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    I don't like it. The .585 Nyati pushes a 750gr bullet at 2000. In FMJ it will kill anything on the planet. Your load has all the frontal area with none of the velocity which makes me concerned about penetration. Looks like some sort of Black Powder loading?
    "We sleep peaceably in our beds because rough men stand ready in the
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    Welcome to the forum!
    I have never used something like that but I dont know if I would call it a blackpowder load. Energy is over 4000ft/lbs at 1700fps. I think it would certainly kill anything that walks quite handily. It doesnt have to kill on both ends to be effective.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sestoppelman View Post
    Welcome to the forum!
    I have never used something like that but I dont know if I would call it a blackpowder load. Energy is over 4000ft/lbs at 1700fps. I think it would certainly kill anything that walks quite handily. It doesnt have to kill on both ends to be effective.
    again +1
    Enjoy life now -- it has an expiration date.

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    blkpowder50 is offline AH Senior Member
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    Its not a blackpowder load,thats just my handle.
    The load im referring to is actually a short version of a Hubel wildcat cartridge, the .585 HE. It pushes a 750 gr. solid@2800 fps max. The .585 HI is a shortened version that nominally pushes a 650 grainer @2000, but in lower pressure loadings for older guns it pushes the 650's @ 1700 and the 480 grainers @ 2000. It was designed for Indiana deer hunting,although i think it is sufficient for any of Americas great bears.

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    blkpowder50 is offline AH Senior Member
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    Its not black powder, its a short version of the wildcat .585 HE. The original does 750grainers@2800 max.

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    OK, I think we got that, its not blackpowder. No one said it was. Red leg said it "looks like" a BP load. I think he knew it was a smokeless round you were asking about, just comparing it to a BP load.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sestoppelman View Post
    OK, I think we got that, its not blackpowder. No one said it was. Red leg said it "looks like" a BP load. I think he knew it was a smokeless round you were asking about, just comparing it to a BP load.
    Exactly. No insult intended. This bullet at this velocity would have a relatively low BC which makes me wary of using it on DG. It might do well on bears on a frontal are side presentation, but even there I might be hesitant shooting any sort of angle. Suspect it would be an effective lion thumper, but it would not be a first choice for buff, and I wouldn't want to irritate an elephant with it. Just my opinion, but you asked.
    "We sleep peaceably in our beds because rough men stand ready in the
    night to visit violence on those who would do us harm" Winston Churchill

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    Quote Originally Posted by sestoppelman View Post
    OK, I think we got that, its not blackpowder. No one said it was. Red leg said it "looks like" a BP load. I think he knew it was a smokeless round you were asking about, just comparing it to a BP load.
    im sorry,are you his spokesperson? I responded to him man to man, and was just trying to be friendly and discuss it with others as well.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Red Leg View Post
    Exactly. No insult intended. This bullet at this velocity would have a relatively low BC which makes me wary of using it on DG. It might do well on bears on a frontal are side presentation, but even there I might be hesitant shooting any sort of angle. Suspect it would be an effective lion thumper, but it would not be a first choice for buff, and I wouldn't want to irritate an elephant with it. Just my opinion, but you asked.
    I did not take it as an insult at all.It is on par with a hot .58 blk powder load. I do appreciate your opinion on the matter,after all i did ask, as youve hunted Africa and I havent but am planning to. I feel it respectful to respond to people who proffer their opinions, and i feel it especially important to act as if you were talking to someone face to face even while behind a computer screen,and i respect people that do.
    Thank you for your opinion!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bobpuckett View Post
    again +1
    thank you for your input.i happen to agree with you on this one.

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    blkpowder50 is offline AH Senior Member
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    Im just learning to use this forum and am posting things i may not have intended to be repetitive. i see how it works now. I thank all the gentleman who gave their opinions and I believe in respect,honor,patience and fair play. And it seems there was quite a bit of that in Africa over the years. Have a great day!

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    Quote Originally Posted by blkpowder50 View Post
    Im just learning to use this forum and am posting things i may not have intended to be repetitive. i see how it works now. I thank all the gentleman who gave their opinions and I believe in respect,honor,patience and fair play. And it seems there was quite a bit of that in Africa over the years. Have a great day!
    Hey Man don't take that the wrong way the +1 is Welcome to AH I don't know a dang thing about a 585 hell I ain't even heard of one. Enjoy the site and again Welcome. Bob
    Last edited by Bobpuckett; 10-16-2013 at 06:08 PM. Reason: hillbilly spelling
    Enjoy life now -- it has an expiration date.

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    Red Leg, you from Kansas are you sir? I rode with Quantrell...but that was a long time ago.

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    Bert the Turtle is offline AH Veteran
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    Quote Originally Posted by blkpowder50 View Post
    Its not a blackpowder load,thats just my handle.
    The load im referring to is actually a short version of a Hubel wildcat cartridge, the .585 HE. It pushes a 750 gr. solid@2800 fps max. The .585 HI is a shortened version that nominally pushes a 650 grainer @2000, but in lower pressure loadings for older guns it pushes the 650's @ 1700 and the 480 grainers @ 2000. It was designed for Indiana deer hunting,although i think it is sufficient for any of Americas great bears.
    Must have bigger deer in Indiana than we have here in North Carolina.

    Welcome to the forum.

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    Quote Originally Posted by blkpowder50 View Post
    Red Leg, you from Kansas are you sir? I rode with Quantrell...but that was a long time ago.
    LOL. No, afraid my folks would have been riding with yours (South Carolinians and Tennesseans - one of whom led a brigade at Gettysburg). "Red Leg" is a old term for an artilleryman (pre-dates the Civil War Kansas militia). It started in the British Army and referred to the red piping on the seam of the trousers of the artillery. I was an artilleryman and spent 29 years in the army practicing that trade. Hence the soubriquet.
    "We sleep peaceably in our beds because rough men stand ready in the
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    blkpowder50 is offline AH Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Red Leg View Post
    LOL. No, afraid my folks would have been riding with yours (South Carolinians and Tennesseans - one of whom led a brigade at Gettysburg). "Red Leg" is a old term for an artilleryman (pre-dates the Civil War Kansas militia). It started in the British Army and referred to the red piping on the seam of the trousers of the artillery. I was an artilleryman and spent 29 years in the army practicing that trade. Hence the soubriquet.
    Ah,i learn something new everyday! Gettysburg, that was it. Cant comment on it,it would force me to say things that i dont want to say,as a Southerner.
    That is very respected, I knew an artilleryman that told me about some of the new munitions thatve been developed to go in the shells, crazy stuff.
    Whats your favorite load for rhino/buff/elephant? the 585Nyati?

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    blkpowder50 is offline AH Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bert the Turtle View Post
    Must have bigger deer in Indiana than we have here in North Carolina.

    Welcome to the forum.
    ha,i dont think theyre that much bigger than they are in Carolina, its just a preference. the wildcat was designed around Indianas "special hunting dates"which allows rifles with cases 1.8" in length or less.

    thank you for the welcome

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bobpuckett View Post
    Hey Man don't take that the wrong way the +1 is Welcome to AH I don't know a dang thing about a 585 hell I ain't even heard of one. Enjoy the site and again Welcome. Bob
    they deleted my post because it had a link in it. But if youre into big bores, .585/750@2800 is impressive! thank you sir and have a great day!

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    Bert the Turtle is offline AH Veteran
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    Quote Originally Posted by blkpowder50 View Post
    ha,i dont think theyre that much bigger than they are in Carolina, its just a preference. the wildcat was designed around Indianas "special hunting dates"which allows rifles with cases 1.8" in length or less.

    thank you for the welcome
    I love the innovation that laws generate!

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